Help plx

[mkhammer]

I got one question, i would like to see 100 % correct answer.

How does crit work with burst damage?

It is same like on fo2? I mean if for example 1 from 38 bullets  from avenger(hexing dmg) is critical then i will get extra bonus compared to that bullet?

I heard many versions like if half of bullets that reached target are critical then whole burst is critical or when first bullet that reached target is critcal then we got critical hit in log.

I would like to see which is correct one.


Also second one how anti crit in armor works?

Is that correct when attacker received critical shoot to his target and target got ca mk2 so he got 10 % chance to turn that critical into non crit?

[zinthos]

guess this helps

7.Each bullet have a chance to crit but a certain amount have to crit for the engine to make a roll and the whole burst counts as critical.
Thats how you get those 300 dmg burst ( damage X1.5 according to the critical table ) and 90-120 normal. Im pretty sure the whole burst is counted as critical not each bullets.
If you have the power to change this it would be cool i prefer fo2 system where each bullet that crits get its own roll and its specified in the log.
The critical hit table need a serious change corosive especially for the torso where we have X1.5 damage immedialty, it should be progressive like this:
roll 0-20    dmg 1.25
roll 20-40   dmg 1.5
and so on.. and of course no ko on torso.

Not quite exactly, I asked mojuk not that long ago about bursting mechanics and that's what he explained to me:
First, the burst get a crit chance roll. If that crit chance roll succeds, 80% of hitting bullets will be automatically be upgraded to critical hit, and a single crit power roll will apply to all the bullets, wich is x1,5 damage or x2 KD/KD (that's why better criticals can help for bursting). The remaining 20% bullets still have a chance to score a critical hit, with the damage multiplier rolled in crit power. Log will display "critically hit".
If the crit chance roll fails, then each bullet has a chance to score critical, but the damage will only be x1,5 and don't expect any effects. Also no more than 70% of the burst will be critical. If, by some extreme luck, you would score more than 70% critical hits, then whats above 70% will be downgraded to normal non critical hit. The log won't display "critically hit", even if more than half the bullets score crit.

Thats why you can have critical bursts that deal around twice the average damage, even more if you have lucky damage rolls. And also KD and KO effect that aren't rolled, but automatic. Only protection against such KD/KO are stonewall and man of steel. Stonewall will reduce KD chance by 90% and KO chance by 50% and man of steel decreases the critpower mod just enough to make it impossible to a burster with better critical to score a KO with a regular weapon, if you wear at least a combat armor.

[mkhammer]

hehe if that answer is correct then crit burts are worth only for one weapon: avenger. I hope leaders of that project will make it more useable.

[mojuk]

Well, Le Troll got it mostly right but he mad few small mistakes, here is what I wrote to him:

if burst is critical:
- at least 80% of bullets is automatically converted to critical
- remaining 20% of bullets still got a chance to become critical (crit chance roll for each bullet)
if burst is not critical:
- at most 70% of bullets are critical (crit chance roll for each bullet)
- remaining 30% of bullets are non critical
- if some bullets become critical hits than attack is called partially critical and in log is displayed as normal attack (no info "critically hit")

% values are stored as int so they are rounded down

For message and extra effects like ko/kd only main crit chance roll is checked.
If you succeed in main crit roll or you do burst attack than crit power is rolled.
Every crit bullet usess crit dmg multiplier based on that crit power roll.
Only if main crit chance roll was successful (attack is marked as critical) you can get special effects from crit table and log message "critically hit".
So if main attack is not critical even if you get best possible crit power roll than you only get higher dmg multiplier from that, no ko/kd effects for partial crits.

To sum it up:
1) when you attack there is crit chance roll
2) if you scored critical hit (successful roll @1) or you do burst attack than there is a crit power roll
3) every bullet counted as critical uses same crit power roll made at the beginning (@2)
4) only if you got successful first crit chance roll (@1) you can score extra effects like kd/ko

hehe if that answer is correct then crit burts are worth only for one weapon: avenger. I hope leaders of that project will make it more useable.

No idea where are you getting this from but it's not true.

[mkhammer]

More bullets better efect. Lets talk about scoring not crit  in fist roll. Ok so now we got chance to get maximum 70 % of crit bullets ye?

avenger bursring on dist from 8 to 21 bullets. (depending on nitue planner.)

So max from 5 to 14  bullets are critical ?

p90 burst from 1 to 4 on range.

So max from 0 to 2 bullets are crit ?

Now lets only rely on 1/3 bullets fired from weapon reach target.

13 from avenger gives maximum 9 bullets being crit.

p90 burst 4 bullets so gives

max 2 bullets being crit.

Now lets talk about crit chance. Max for burst is 25 %.

So more often from small guns there will be no any crit bullets.

More bullets fired give more ammout of crit bullets.( I am basing on Bernoulli process)

And by obseration weapons like avenger, gattling, p90, xl i see that there is no point goin into crits in weapons which have not stable ammount of bullets reching target except avenger.


Well i know its very hard to acheive balance in this theme,  maybe its good, maybe a bit too random. Still I think balance in normal dmg is very good. Revorking crits would make big mess.

[mojuk]

Not a big deal here but you got numbers wrong (nitue seams to have old weapons' stats).
Avenger burst on range to single target is 14 bullets, p90 5.

avenger bursring on dist from 8 to 21 bullets. (depending on nitue planner.)

Don't even know what's that suppose to mean.

You can't just pick one situation and base your opinion on it. Especially when you pick something that is suppose to be a support for burst damage - partial crits, which should make gap between critical and normal bursts smaller. Also you can't talk about stable when it comes to crits. Another thing worth mentioning here is hit roll. To crit those bullets you got to hit them first and there is a lot more bullets for miniguns ;p You also shot for less AP and got higher damage per bullet so 1 critical bullet for sg makes bigger difference than 1 crit bullet for avenger.

But I won't force or try to make somebody to play on this or that kind of characters, I would not agree thou that crits on burst weapons other than avengers are not working well because I have been playing many of those and I liked what I saw.
I can only provide technical details if I know them, maybe write my opinion but you are free to make your own

[mkhammer]

Yeah about that sg need 1 ap less You got right its pretty good balanced i forgot about it.

Well i would like to see crits more stabble but not making so big dmg. Maybe 20-30 % bigger dmg depending on how much You will invest(hit the gasp, even more crit, more or less luck).