Laser gatling discussion

[NarrowMinded]

Hello I would like to talk about a weapon that is not so hard to obtain in my opinion and that does not requires any specific perks to do a lot of damage in PvP.

Please be openminded and say the truth about it, we are here to improve the game not to defend laser gatling because we have a laser gatling build that we have levelled up.

When a lot of people are talking about the efficiency of the new weapon the grenade luncher and using it because at the time I write this message there is a bug that double its damage. I know that the bug will be solved soon but I want to talk about the laser gatling cause it's became totally normal in people's mind to use laser gatling and deal 80-100 damage per burst at distance on CAmk2 (considered by me like the best armor in the game that you can obtain excluding the TC's armors,PA etc..armors that you use rarely).

Years ago on 2238 the laser gatling was considered as totally useless, it didn't make any damage and one day the developpers decided to rebalance the weapon...This session was a total fail for me in PvP because there was a problem with the critical bursts and most of players created laser gatling critical builds and if they were able to get a bypass you were basically dead in one shot, even without bypass you were dead too sometimes. When something is unbalanced you have two choices, using it too with all your team, or not using it. Personally I was using it but what I want to say is that we always have a third option, us the PvP players is to denounce it, talk about it.

I know that the developpers wanted to struggle about these problems even here in reloaded you didn't ask yourself why spray and pray perk is not availbale anymore ?

In my opinion we can't talk about this subject without talking about other really essential things. What are the weapons that can "burst"(shoot multiple bullets) in the game ? Some big guns like LSW, avenger blablabla we know it, few small guns like HKP90, maybe Xl, pancor blabla and laser gatling. If you think about it the burst weapons are divided in two categories only : Normal damage, and Laser damage.
Now I feel like the issue is that in almost every combat builds it is really easy to  put at least the perk toughness or even tougher to counter the normal damage dealer. But if you think about it the only way to protect yourself against the laser damage that come from one unique weapon is to wear an armor that have higher resistance to laser. The only perk that can protect you from laser damage is adrenaline rush, the problem is that of course adrenaline rush protects ALSO against the normal damage so no advantage for the normal damage dealer.

When you are a normal damage dealer and have tougness perks and you face an energy damage dealer with laser gatling the fight is not equal at all because you fight with two perks less, your toughness are totally useless against him but his toughness are totally usefull against YOU. Of course it's not psycho that will helps, because even psycho don't add laser resistance so as I said only adrenaline rush in perks you have can help but it's not a perk that help you to resist from the beginning.

The developpers of 2238 changed the toughness perks from fallout to protect only from normal damage.
Now let's ask ourself why the 2238 developpers changed the toughness perks this way, because in the original game toughness added resistance to every type of damage. In my opinion the answer is simple it is because at this time they wanted to make possible to counter the bursters but laser gatling was not used by bursters because it was too weak.
But now the laser gatling is probably the strongest weapon in game excluding all the very rare weapons (that you use only in TCs and when you have 20 friends with you so if you die they can loot you back weapons that you dont use so much) so laser gatling was changed but toughness perks remained unchanged, why ?

I asked on 2238 a developper about the laser gatling and he told me this exact sentence : If you take too much damage THEN wear metal armors !
So that's what I tried and you can try it too if you want but you will see really fast that you will get blown by explosions and other type of damages. What this developper didn't understand I think is that every good teams will try mix their damage and I feel that the only role of the avenger minigun holder or the normal damage dealers is to prevent enemy from coming with metal armors or to punish an opponent without toughness so it forces you to wear combat armors so the gatling laser can dps and it's very sad for the normal damage dealers.

I think that we can't talk about the best and unique laser bursting weapon without talking about the best big guns bursting weapon so let's compare them :

Avenger Minigun :
Avenger requires 3 perks bonus ranged damage to be effective.
Avenger's range is 35 hexes
Avanger damage is reduced by armor, adrenaline rush, psycho, toughness, even tougher.

Laser Gatling :
Gatling does not requires any perks to boost its damage.
Gatling's range is 40 hexes.
Gatling damage is reduced by armor, adrenaline rush.

At equal skill in one versus one it is the laser gatling characters that will win at distance because he has less hps since he took 3 brds and also his toughness are totally ignored by the laser gatling holder. At one hex the laser gatling guy holder can one shot the avenger guy but he can get one shot avenger too BUT he can use pshycho to reduce damage of the avenger holder to not die from one hex !
What we can see here is that the problem is not the high damage of the laser gatling because avenger do high damage too, the problem is that the laser damage can't be reduced while the normal damage can be reduced a lot.


Important subjects I want to call into question :

Do the pseudo"rarity"(let's be honest this weapon can be farmable at enclave and it's not so rare, even easier for big teams that can go there with more players.) of laser gatling excuse the fact that the weapon pass through toughness perks and can do more damage than the best bursting weapon of another category ?

(Then lol make some other weapons harder to get but as powerful as the laser gatling, why should be only one weapon that is "rare" but do more damage than others)

Things I don't want to hear again because it don't solve the problem in any way :


-If it is op you can use it too.
Yes I am using it but when everyone were using fast relog in pvp in 2238 because there was not punishment I was using it too but it was not a good thing for the game. I am happy now that fast relog is forbidden and that you can get banned for it and I will be happy when laser gatling will be balanced.

-Wear metal armors
As I said the people who says this are not doing what they says for themselves.
Teams mix their damage type.

-Gatling is not op
Gatling laser holder can do more damage on tanks than any normal damage dealer in the game without relying on luck !
Gatling laser do 235-240 damage at one hexe on CA mk2 you can do your tests.

I try to bring also solution, not only complains. A good solution would be to add little bit of laser resistance in toughness perks or to reduce a little bit the base damage of the laser gatling.
I think that no one wants a useless laser gatling that would be too much nerfed but please no one wants an over powered gatling that counters normal damage dealer and some perks ( or maybe the people that uses them of course).

Please bring your solutions too.

                                                                                                         Peace.

[ravenp]

>buff avenger
>buff 5mm armor penetration
>rework gatling to use more ammo per burst and lower dmg so it will need brd
of course anything of that wont happen because its balanced that gatling without perks do more dmg than avenger with perks and have 5 more range

[mkhammer]

All weapons on that server are ballanced. No need to change anything. If you re going to hex fight against gattling use avenger, you can insta kill enemy if you re better player.

Also one thing, nobody forces You to use ca mk2, use ma mk2 with bonuses and stay on long range, normal dmg wont rape You.

Ca mk2 is not supposed to be the best armor in game, the best is HPA, so if You want better resist use it.


Dont compare avenger with gattling( 40 bullets vs 10 bullets). There is no more weapon like avenger which got such benefit from brd, it can kill non tanky builds in 1-2 shoots from range, gattling cant do it.


Use snipers to counter gattling.


Dont Cry about pvp, weapons are used also in pvE.


In one versus one and You re using avenger fighting gattling enemy, you dont need toughness, enemy need so Your 3x brd is equal to his 2x toughness.

One more thing:

-Wear metal armors
As I said the people who says this are not doing what they says for themselves.
Teams mix their damage type.

Lack of logics? If they mix team that means not only gattling is good?

At equal skill in one versus one it is the laser gatling characters that will win at distance because he has less hps since he took 3 brds and also his toughness are totally ignored by the laser gatling holder. At one hex the laser gatling guy holder can one shot the avenger guy but he can get one shot avenger too BUT he can use pshycho to reduce damage of the avenger holder to not die from one hex !

Not true, nobody forces you to take 2x toughness on avenger char. Counter argument: avenger crit char can kill in 2 range shoots every tank.

End of the topic.

[Adams]

Delete all the existing gats boost its dmg and make it hidden shelter rare.

[Horus]

All weapons on that server are ballanced.

I felt in tears laughing.

Dont Cry about pvp, weapons are used also in pvE.

Here comes the famous "dont cry" whenever someone points out a problem.

Avenger Minigun :
Avenger requires 3 perks bonus ranged damage to be effective.
Avenger's range is 35 hexes
Avanger damage is reduced by armor, adrenaline rush, psycho, toughness, even tougher.

Laser Gatling :
Gatling does not requires any perks to boost its damage.
Gatling's range is 40 hexes.
Gatling damage is reduced by armor, adrenaline rush.

Playing a burster on this server is by far the hardest build to play. The avenger because of its low damage per bullet is very affecter by DT of target more than any other gun.
You cannot deny however that it performs relatively well on hex. Like the XL avenger is considered an hexing weapon more than anything else.

Boosting the avenger is in my opinion a bad idea as it is it can kill one hex + range burst at range considrering you dont roll a 140 dmg on hex like it is often the case.

I fear that the problem is more complicated and is not only for the avenger as damage here is completly random.
Whatever weapon you are using you can hit someone for 86 dmg and right after for 350dmg with an avenger.

Last session i even rolled 25 dmg on hex.
The XL have the same problem. ( probably du to half of bullets missing or more at 95% chance)

Gatling had same problem you could hit for 4 dmg and right after for 250.
Now the damage is more reliable sort of ...still, it has been wrongly adjusted.
From 49-99 we went to 64-84 wich is a straigh +15 dmg boost per bullet. Do the maths.

I am personnally against a boost for the avenger because it will place triple brd avenger same place as gatling is now and will end up in range spamming. It will also shred no DR characters.

From my point of view avenger dont need a boost.
Gatling need to be readjusted to what it should have been : 49-69 or something similar but certainly not 64 as min damage.

Problem of gatling is that it wouldve worked in previous session where people were implanted. Not at a fresh start.

From my point of view there are two solution:
- Make ca mk2 craftable (for laser dr chance)
- Readjuste gatling  min damage to his previous value while keeping the 20 difference between min and max damage.

[mkhammer]

Quote: Random is god.

 It is good that sometimes you burst with gattling for 20 dmg(like it is now). It just makes pvp more funny and unexpectable, sometimes it is also annoying to me but still its game not any contest or sth to win.


From my point of view there is no a problem.

Problem is when player counter shows 200 players and only about hmm 10-15 % taking part in TC and those players want decide what is better for other players.
For me people on TC can even use only gattlings, I dont care about TC. We got also dungeons, special encounters, farming, pking in turnbase etc. Think how weapons affect those things, not only TC.

[Chosen One]

End of the topic.

Wow....... I didn't know Kilgore had an alt.

[salty_captain]

-1 its good as it is. avenger is better for hexing gatling is distance

and you got tesla which makes gatling useless 20 dmg

and all brds avenger will always do more dmg than gatling except on normal resist tanks

If anything then I'd be ok with a new 7% laser resist perk

[Ion Cannon]

Hurka Durka, Gatling is good as it is, avenger is craftable, gatling not, you can also use metal armor mk2 in pvp, problem solved, camk2 team is not the way, when I was playing on 2238, my main armor was mamk2, bcuz i was more afraid of gatlings than of rockets, and i've used it on rocket launcher build, I don't see any problem at all.
You missed.

[BB.]

You said so many true things about Gatling and normal damage weapons like if they were something bad. But they are not.
I see a lot people using avenger full dps bursters but crying about it being not so good. Of course the build is very good, just use it properly. It can give you huge advantage versus certain builds and in certain positions. But all you do is counter Gatling tank 1v1 in open space without even wearing Metal Armor and cry about losing ("bump my avenger cuz it sucks" - if it sucks why you keep on using it?).

(Then lol make some other weapons harder to get but as powerful as the laser gatling, why should be only one weapon that is "rare" but do more damage than others)

Yes, let's make a PA and Bozars server again with buyable implants and make it empty in 2 weeks!

Playing a burster on this server is by far the hardest build to play.

If you're using it in open space TC...

I agree about making dmg range narrower for Gatling wasn't a good change, though. Actually, the problem with wide range of damage (so it could hit for 20 or 200 depending on luck) was a very nice aspect of this weapon.

[NarrowMinded]

Hello I would like to answer your post mkhammer.
First who are you to start your post with "All weapons on that server are ballanced. No need to change anything." I mean even the developpers of the game are still trying to make changes to improve the gameplay and are not 100 percents sure that no changes need to be made that's why they keep doing updates. So it is just your opinion I think we can agree on this...
After saying this you re talking immediately about one hexing
"If you re going to hex fight against gattling use avenger, you can insta kill enemy if you re better player. " Well we can really discuss this since in my opinion both players can one shot the other one but laser gatling character can take psycho while avenger users can't.

The person who lacks of logics between me and you is the person who wrote these sentences in the same post :

"Also one thing, nobody forces You to use ca mk2, use ma mk2 with bonuses and stay on long range, normal dmg wont rape You."

"Dont compare avenger with gattling( 40 bullets vs 10 bullets). There is no more weapon like avenger which got such benefit from brd, it can kill non tanky builds in 1-2 shoots from range, gattling cant do it."

First you are telling people to use metal armor mk 2 at distance and that "normal damage wont rape them" and after this you are saying that there is no other weapon like avenger and that it can kills in two shots at distance non tanky character builds but wait,
if we are not using combat armors and metal armors mk2 like you say what will happens ? I come here with proofs I just went to hinkley with my friend

Spoiler: show

as you can see the damage goes up to 142 hit points, and my character narrowminded has of course toughness + even tougher so when you say normal damage won't rape you I think that you are saying something funny and also something that is in contradiction with what you say after. This is what happens if you want to wear mamk2. And of course I am not talking about the explosive damages that will be higher and all the other types...

"Ca mk2 is not supposed to be the best armor in game, the best is HPA, so if You want better resist use it. "
Woww really ? Hardened Power armor is better ? So first read me well next time because if you look back to my message I am not saying that the ca mk2 is the best armor in the game : "to use laser gatling and deal 80-100 damage per burst at distance on CAmk2 (considered by me like the best armor in the game that you can obtain excluding the TC's armors,PA etc..armors that you use rarely)." Everything is said here camk2 is the armor that most of players will wear most of the time, to prove you that I am saying the truth why in hinkley you think that the best armor you can have is the camk2/desert combat armor do you think that the developpers were stupid to not put Power armors in hinkley ? but why they didn't do it ? Because it's more representative of the fights going on the wasteland.

And also honestly what is the point of your sentence about HPA, what do you recommend to players ? To wear HPA because it has higher resistance ? First it ALSO has higher resistance to normal damage and everything so it's not solving the problem, second thing is that it is in contradiction with another thing you said in your second post when you say that we should not talk only about TCs( I was talking about everything in my post and not only about TCs by the way but well) because it only represents 10-15 percents of the players in FOnline but wait. Then if you recommend players to wear HPAs, who are the players that have HPAs ? The players that do TCs !
From the wiki " Hardened Power Armor spawns randomly in TC lockers with a probability of 0.5% " So thanks for the advice and your bad faith, you surely represents most of the players of FOnline I have no doubts about it.

"Use snipers to counter gattling. "
Nothing to say about this...non sense, don't know what you mean and what you want to say with this.
Also snipers counters avengers even more since gatling got 5 hexes more than avenger wake up pls.

"Dont Cry about pvp, weapons are used also in pvE."
Well is it because a player want to talk about a subject that he is crying ?
And what do you mean by this ? I am talking about the stats of a weapon and the build to use a particular weapon, I am comparing the perks... and  you tell me that weapons are not only used in PvP but also used in PvE what are you talking about dude. PvP or PvE my post remain the same but well if you want me to talk about PvE with gatling lasers and TB fights like you say I will.
3 perks that are free for action boys and bonus move if you want to play TB, for lifegivers etc..For farming it is a great weapon if you have enough ammos since you deal a lot of damage to opponents without armors like mutants or centaurs.
But honestly I think that your PvE demand is a little bit off the subject.

"In one versus one and You re using avenger fighting gattling enemy, you dont need toughness, enemy need so Your 3x brd is equal to his 2x toughness."
Look at what you said here please, first thing no it is not equal because 3-2=1 so there is one perk difference.
Second thing is that I wish you good luck to play without any toughness because you know the problem is that you told it yourself if you want to one versus one the laser gatling character you need to adapt your build to play only against him and that's not realistic at all it's exactly like wearing a mamk2 in pvp to counter only laser gatling characters while the person in front of you don't have to think about all of this because he has his toughness so he can play against everything and don't need brd to do damage.

"Lack of logics? If they mix team that means not only gattling is good?"
No, it's just that a normal team want to have snipers, rockets and bursters for range/crits, explosion, and damage/one hex.
And also I didn't say that only gatling was good, I am saying that you can have a better build and more choice of perks with laser gatling.

"Not true, nobody forces you to take 2x toughness on avenger char"
hahaha nobody forces you yes, but if you don't take it or at least take an even tougher you will take a lot of damage from normal damage dealers it's all the time the same problem, what you re saying is good only against laser gatling character but you don't know what you will face. Problem is that laser gatling characters can face everyone while avenger can't if we do what you re saying.

"Counter argument: avenger crit char can kill in 2 range shoots every tank. "
We were talking about normal damage and now you re talking about criticals, what about bypass with laser gatling ? You don't talk about it.
Also what I want to point out is the fact that witout relying on luck as I already said, laser gatling characters are the best damage dealers against tanks. Because in fact you can't tank yourself against them without getting totally outdamaged by other types of damage.


I ve read other posts and I think that the damages of other weapons are fine.
The thing is that you can take the toughness perks in the very early levels and all builds can afford it at least one, before toughness was a perk for the tanks. But now I feel like if you have 0 toughness you really need to know what you re doing or you messed up your build that is where I don't agree with mkhammer when he says that no one forces you to take toughness. So the problem is that you can't gain laser resistance without changing your armor.
As I said even psycho doesn't help, I ask for a little bit laser resistance in toughness perk. Normal damage and laser damage are high at the beginning but I find it unfair that you can reduce normal damage and not laser damage.

And please mkhammer stop it with your end of the topic, if you have something to say we can discuss about it but you are not the person I think that can close a topic because you don't like what is said in this topic or agree.

[Mad Matt]

Gatling isn't too much OP, it's very powerfull, it's true. Anyway I don't see a problem that should be solved.

PS. Saying all weapons are balanced is...hmm...let's face it, a bullshit...

[mkhammer]

Well if all weapons are being used that means it is ballanced.

Use plasma tank to fight in mid range with gattling or even 223 pistol. You will see how easy you can beat stonewall gattling tank.

[Mad Matt]

Man, using all stuff doesn't means it's equal 

[mkhammer]

Everything is said here camk2 is the armor that most of players will wear most of the time, to prove you that I am saying the truth why in hinkley you think that the best armor you can have is the camk2/desert combat armor do you think that the developpers were stupid to not put Power armors in hinkley ? but why they didn't do it ? Because it's more representative of the fights going on the wasteland.

Use also beer and psycho and maybe go 2 lifegivers instead 1 so You wont be dead after 2 rangebursts.

Ca mk2 is not the best armor it is just medium in each type of resist and maybe it should not be used mostly by players.  If ca mk2 would have better laser res, nobody would use metal armors. You can also craft combat armors and use those whose got laser res bonus. I dont see any problem here if You got tesla the most powerful armor in game against energy.

Maybe people will realise why in game we got different types of armors, different weapons and different activites.

"Use snipers to counter gattling. "
Nothing to say about this...non sense, don't know what you mean and what you want to say with this.
Also snipers counters avengers even more since gatling got 5 hexes more than avenger wake up pls.

Sniper in metal armor can easliy counter gattling and still keep distance from avenger.

hahaha nobody forces you yes, but if you don't take it or at least take an even tougher you will take a lot of damage from normal damage dealers it's all the time the same problem, what you re saying is good only against laser gatling character but you don't know what you will face. Problem is that laser gatling characters can face everyone while avenger can't if we do what you re saying.

Ask people whos playin crit builds if they are taking those perks.

We were talking about normal damage and now you re talking about criticals, what about bypass with laser gatling ? You don't talk about it.
Also what I want to point out is the fact that witout relying on luck as I already said, laser gatling characters are the best damage dealers against tanks. Because in fact you can't tank yourself against them without getting totally outdamaged by other types of damage.

Maybe they are supposed to be the best damage dealers against tanks?