Suggestion about crit table

[Mighty]

It is Gauss Rifle, TPR, Bozar ?

.223 pistol

1 St ?

[Troll]

It is Gauss Rifle, TPR, Bozar ?

Gauss rifle minimum bypass damage is 135, 183 on average.
Bozar minimum bypass damage is 150, 179 on average.
TPR minimum bypass damage is 150, 195 on average.
.223 pistol MAXIMUM bypass damage is 140.

[Johnny]

1 St ?

St doesnt matter for bypass can we stop off topic

[Wind_Drift]

Don't recall your sniper build.

Point stands, table has been changed repeatedly, people are still not happy. When we get the changelog this week we'll see what changes have been made, and we'll see what PvP balance looks like in the next few weeks.

I see some of my other points were ignored as well, specifically quick recovery and using Doc to heal KO.

[Troll]

General gameplay will be more balanced, like at session start, but crit table will still feel a bit like : nothing, scratch, scratch, nothing, wrecked...
It's that feeling we wanted to remove with this new crit table. In old one, you have nothing or all effects combined more or less. With new one you can have one, then another, and sometimes both, because each has a roll, and no non rolled effects that stack. Special will be more important in order to resist critical effects, especially perception and luck. So snipers will have much lower bypass and blinded chance, but they lack of tankyness anyway, tanks will have higher blinded and bypass chance, but lower weapon drop, cripple and KD, and even lower KO is they take bonehead and man of steel.

[Wind_Drift]

I understand the crit table, but I re-read the thread and am unclear on how RBtE is proposed to change.

Implementing this crit table as suggested may reduce 30 AP KO/KD, but it's going to get snipers nerfed yet again on the change following this one... because people will cry about this.

 

I honestly think that small changes need to be made incrementally, large re-works always tend to create more problems than they solve once it's actually put to a test.

[Troll]

Read it again, and make some calculations. Blinding is a bit easyer, as is weapon drop. KO and armor bypass are not as likelly, or depends much more on target special.
RBTE reduce 50% of crit CHANCE modifier from helmets.
The idee here is to add a -50% crit POWER also, to make it a must have for snipers.
Was Johnny gave you here is a "super balance fix pack", you need all the elements for it to work properly.
We planned that neew table regarding that perks would also change, making them better/compensate, a bonehead+mos tank is almost impossible to KO, but if sniper has RBTE he still has a chance, if he don't he simply can't, and thats one exemple. Read the table again.

[Wind_Drift]

I assure you I understand it from reading it and re-reading it, it's simply that I feel that additional critical effects even on the lowest rolls won't go over well with everyone. It will cause hurt feels and anger, and we will just have this discussion again next year as a result. Just my opinion.

Fuck it, change it right now, we'll test it. I could be wrong. It needs tested though.

[Troll]

OFC it needs testing. I made some calculations, on average TC build, blinded is like 10% more likelly to occur, around same number for weapon drop. KO chance has been decreased, as KO duration. But nothing is worth some old fashionned beta testing.

[Wind_Drift]

But nothing is worth some old fashionned beta testing.

That's actually what I've been working on the past several hours.  I fired up the 2238 SDK and made the recommended changes to RBtE, MOS, and Stonewall in combat.fos and moved onto the crit table itself.  I was planning on running both the current table and the suggested table for comparisons.

However the first thing I noticed is that the Critable Tool itself doesn't support the new suggested table, or at least doesn't appear to.  For each targeted body part and roll ( 0-5 ) the tool only seems to allow one test stat to roll against, which is how the current crit table is.  Only one test stat appears per target/roll.

The suggested table has at least two different stats being tested, and in some cases three.  It may very well be possible to manually code it in and roll against several stats at once, but someone who understands Codeine better then me would have to answer that one. 

Some clarification on that might be nice...

[Troll]

That's a shame, I hope that it will be possible to roll mutiple stats for each crit, because that's what makes the new table interesting. However, if it's truly impossible, we'll have to think the table with a single roll per crit. But maybe mojuk can do something. He seems good with combat code manipulation.

[Wind_Drift]

That's a shame, I hope that it will be possible to roll mutiple stats for each crit, because that's what makes the new table interesting. However, if it's truly impossible, we'll have to think the table with a single roll per crit. But maybe mojuk can do something. He seems good with combat code manipulation.

I was hopped up on energy drinks at 5am, so it's very possible I overlooked something. I'll have to poke around more.

Hearing from mojuk would be nice (at some point, I'm guessing he's busy this week).

[Beer]

So is this idea dead? I'd like to see this receive consideration

[Troll]

So do I.
But without implants things feel more balanced, so they don't come here anymore.
We still don't know if it's possible to make multiple rolls for SPECIAL check.
Even with more average damage and more KD, we still have that "nothing-nothing-PWNED" feeling. But stonewall rework made things already better.

[mojuk]

We still don't know if it's possible to make multiple rolls for SPECIAL check.

Sorry, forgot about this one.
With current crit table it's not possible to make multiple stat rolls for 1 crit roll. It's not impossible to add second roll but it's not 5min job to add it, not to mention testing it properly. So I would say possible but not any time soon because there are other things to finish first.