14mm sniper rifle (re-think-it)

[shaila]

cheking the closed suggestions boards i found http://forum.fonline-reloaded.net/index.php?topic=5777.0

An old military sniper model M82A1 Barret. This version was modified to shoot 14mm caliber bullets since .50 became a thing of the past. However, this weapon has a low clip size.


Weight: 5129 grams
Dmg: 25-50
Attack: Single
Range: 43 hexes
Action Points: 6
Min ST: 5
Perk: Penetrate
Magazine: 4
Ammo: 14mm

It can be a BG sniper but theres the LSW already, so small gun! but then theres the sniper rifle but this lacks range but for penetrate perk and more dmg.

Picture came from this dude but we need something with 14mm, since 14mm Pistol is too weak and lacks range in PvP. I was gonna ask sperber to see if he can whoop up anything looking like sniper with 14mm caliber but ehh I forgot

http://www.nma-fallout.com/showthread.php?198021-M82A1-Barrett-mod-for-Fallout2-RP-2-1-2b

and i think: yes, there is a reason for add other sniper rifle.

actual sniper rifle its a really crap to shoot everyone for example:

Spoiler: show

Yeah, I know, but still:

20:39:07 • Shaila was hit for 158 hit points.
20:39:08 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 87 hit points, knocked out and blinded.
20:39:09 • You were hit in the eyes for 14 hit points.
20:39:10 • You see BadBoy.
20:39:12 • You were hit in the left arm for 6 hit points.
20:39:15 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 105 hit points, knocked out, blinded and had your armor bypassed.
20:39:17 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 98 hit points, knocked out, blinded and had your armor bypassed.
20:39:21 • You see Wall.
20:39:22 • You see Dresser.
20:39:23 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 55 hit points and were killed.
20:39:23 • You see BadBoy.
20:39:30 • You see Renesco's Pharmacy Sign.
20:39:32 • BadBoy: ...:v...
20:39:36 • Shaila: hi
20:39:38 • BadBoy: ...ko your best friend aijht?...

i remember this fight and was a random lucky effect the ko, he was wearing a bozar so a burst from 40 hexes can b killed me without any problem and i shoot 1 times to the arms (5ap in that case, same as bozar burst both characters with brof i guess) and do 6 damage. more examples like that have thousands, snipers players will now that (not plasma tankers, aren the same)
so we have this one in ew:

A Wattz 2000 Laser Rifle. Uses micro fusion cells for more powerful lasers, and an extended barrel for additional range.
Damage    50 - 60
Single    AP: 5, Range: 45
Damage type   Laser
Ammo   Micro Fusion Cells
Ammo capacity    12 (expanded to 24)

its good, have good damage (bypass the perks toughnes and eventougher) but most of armors used in pvp have good laser dr/th and the ammo lacks of any dr or dm profit.

in bg we have this one:


Damage    22 - 37
Single    AP: 5, Range: 45
Burst    AP: 6, Range: 35, Rounds: 5
Ammo   .223 FMJ
Ammo capacity    30

have good ammo capacity and good ammo too but lacks damage and there isnt a good choice for sniper cause lacks range to stay enough far away from regulars bursts (gatling burst 40 hex, lsw 35, evenger 30, etc all regular weapons nothing t4 like bozar or vindicator)

and finally:



A DKS-501 Sniper Rifle. Excellent long range projectile weapon. Originally .308, this one is chambered in the more common .223 caliber.
Damage    20 - 40
Single    AP: 5, Range: 50
Ammo   .223 FMJ
Ammo capacity    6

the only good thing its that 50 range. it sucks, 6 ammo capacity? only 3 more than a grenade launcher? initial damage outpot from 20? same as combat shot gun or a xl (both have better ammo and combat shotgun has penetrate perk). so its pretty low the damage u can do with a sniper rifle, if u dont do a single ko u are a dead player.

so my point here is snipers (true snipers, long range and normal damage) need a better weapon to use (no a gauss or bozar cause they are rare) and thats why im asking to re think this 14mm sniper. i suggest :



An old military sniper model M82A1 Barret. This version was modified to shoot 14mm caliber bullets since .50 became a thing of the past.


Weight: 5129 grams
Dmg: 27-50
Attack: Single
Range: 50 hexes
Action Points: 6
Min ST: 5
Perk: Penetrate
Magazine: 10
Ammo: 14mm

cant run when its equipped in any hand (same as m60), gives -90 sneak penalty when u have it in the inventory, 5 str its ok, will drop the chance to hit from 50 hex with 1 str sniper but it will be ok.

[Crazeddoctor]

+1 except for this part 

Spoiler: show

cant run when its equipped in any hand (same as m60)

To me that shouldnt even be a part of any gun, as it practically makes the gun useless for pvp as you'll get 1 hexed and makes it good for PvE only then.

[Styles]

Could always bring in the .50 cal ammo from Tactics and use it. Then we could have the Browning Machine gun. Could also bring in the Depleted Uranium bullets as well. Another use for uranium ore. With the machine gun, can't run just like the M60. Would need 10 strength to even use it right. It would be heavy, including the ammo.

14mm to my understanding is bigger then .50 cal? But yeah if the stuff from Tactics "is to over powered" then go with 14mm.

[Crazeddoctor]

14mm to my understanding is bigger then .50 cal?

yeah, .50 is 12.7mm I believe

Edit: on second thought i looked up too see if a 14mm sniper existed....  heres what i found http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/06/27/14-9mm-sop-rifle-cartridge/

mind you, a "Cannon" is labeled as  15mm or more.... this thing is a rifle at 14.9  so yeah, make it a 10 strength requirement (maybe 9 ) or if you have less than required then you have to walk with it

[Styles]

Doing some reading. NATO .50 caliber isn't quite the same as a 12.7mm.  BMG .50 caliber is 12.7mmx99 NATO, while a 12.7mm is 12.7x108mm but I can see how that's just splitting hairs.

I am just going on about it because I would really enjoy the .50cal from Tactics.

But yeah I support the suggestion of the 14mm sniper rifle.

[Troll]

It would add a second weapon that uses that ammo.
Another idee I had, is decreasing the crit damage multiplier while increasing base damage.
So you would have better damage when shooting someone non crit, and a bit better damage when criting.
I like the idee of an enhanced sniper rifle thaugh.

[Wind_Drift]

Doing some reading. NATO .50 caliber isn't quite the same as a 12.7mm.  BMG .50 caliber is 12.7mmx99 NATO, while a 12.7mm is 12.7x108mm but I can see how that's just splitting hairs.

I am just going on about it because I would really enjoy the .50cal from Tactics.

But yeah I support the suggestion of the 14mm sniper rifle.

12.7 is the diameter of the bullet itself, while the x99/x108 is the case length.

I'll +1 the suggestion simply because I like playing snipers, and I always vote in my own interest.

[Styles]

12.7 is the diameter of the bullet itself, while the x99/x108 is the case length.

I am aware of that. The bullet is the same size but the casing is different. Which is the part about splitting hairs. It's a game, we don't need to get super technical. But still we could

More bullets and guns the better IMO.

[shaila]

It would add a second weapon that uses that ammo.
Another idee I had, is decreasing the crit damage multiplier while increasing base damage.
So you would have better damage when shooting someone non crit, and a bit better damage when criting.
I like the idee of an enhanced sniper rifle thaugh.

its ok to use the 14mm ammo cause in the game have a pair or more weapons share 1 type of ammo. but 14mm pistol its to miser and dont share it with no one. about the increase the base damage and decrease the crit roll then should be a 50-55 damage and only 3 roll? i guess that is a bad idea. also about crafting it needs a 14mm pistol and some hq alloys(maybe 1) hq metal part(maybe 2) and wood (for sure 1). and maybe its a bad idea to disable run when u are wearing it, so first lets try out it with run enabled until the wipe and then we see (?() haha, i dont think kilgore like this thread cause was a closed suggestion

[Johnny]

if u dont do a single ko u are a dead player.

Thats what need to be changed, adding a new weapon why not but its the whole damage output of snipers that need to be changed.

Ko or nothing is completly boring and not fun either for snipers and for their target.

Bypass and ko are very strong in this server already, the problem is the crit table that rolls nothing or big retarded rolls.
As for tanks they will probably be changed so i just hope snipers will too.

Best thing you can do is praying for tesla helmets when you bring sniper or combat helmet when you bring energy 
Thats why you need a reco before entering you cant really fight on your own with a sniper its a support class.

This problem could be solved with the deletion of the helmets.


Back to the topic: damage 20-50  why so random?

[Troll]

This problem could be solved with the deletion of the helmets.

I agree, helmets were nice feature, but the resulting damage is dumb: extreme or almost nothing
with energy on tesla and almost same with ca+SG.
Maybe they should be reworked, deleted is a bit extreme. Shooting a tesla helmet with a turbo plasma is even better than CA helmet because of that retarded bypass rate.

for a SG sniper, bonehead is a pain in the ass, it's just too powerfull for a trait. And since there is no lvl cap, -1 INT is a cheap price to pay.
With a sniper rifle, you can crit a tank for 50 damage, yeah!!! Noway you get KO or KD because of stonewall.

[F O R M A L D E H Y D E]

reserved skill changed into sniper skill?

lol

[Help Bot]

Making snipers more than multiple crit or bust?
On a quick shot build it'd be 3 AP a shot so 4 shots in TB a turn for 100-200 damage.

Reasonable IMO. As is...but it'd seem to just be a slight upgrade. Snipers still seem gimped compared to BG's.

Though TBH this problem could be fixed if we increased the AP for Plasma rifles and their range too.

That way we wouldn't be having 20 Turbo shots, nor would we have snipers being worthless being crit or bust.

If I recall not many things aside from Tesla block Plasma, and Tesla doesn't block normal damage.

Even then, I'd still like this idea it'd give a reason to make 14mm rounds or to scav them.

If anything I think this sniper rifle should do 75-125 damage. Sniper rifles IRL are designed to destroy tanks or decimate heads like watermelons. A crit from an Anti material sniper rifle to the head should kill anything even in PA cause come on IRL your head would be off. The can crushed, and the car behind you on fire.

Snipers aren't fast, nor should aiming them. 9-10 AP wouldn't be unreasonable I think especially if the gun has a very good chance to insta gib like what heavy weapons do.

---Random Musing----
Crit or Bust is fine IMO, just that the Crit shouldn't be 10 Crits. Especially with so many tanking perks. I think the game would be more fun without any tanking perks. It'd change how things play out and maybe more players would be here.

Alternatively Snipers could just be hidden unless the person being shot passes a sneak check (Takes a sneaker to find one right? IRL) If under a certain weight(when moving or shooting). Armor be darned Cause ghile suits are IRL things too. Of course if there's a weight check involved you probably won't be some space marine and hidden.

With all the perks we gotta give a sniper a chance to offload 10-20 rounds after all. The Tanks will be fine. Balance Balance. If everything is tank or bust there's no need to have any skills at all. Just have everyone be level 24 same stats, and bam utopia Anything else would stink anyway eh?

It'd be nice if a sneaker at 300 sneak will also be seen by anyone (hidden from teammates too might already be the case) at 1 tile = 1 perception, If Stealth Boy'd then they'll show on motion sensors cause the stealth boy emits a field which moves around the target otherwise due to stealth boy rarity the sniper will be always hidden unless firing, upon firing the stealth boy should be auto turned off (The kick from the rifle being enough to distort the field to the point it over charges, and resets the device like a circuit braker), hopefully long enough for a close perceptive/experienced in the art of stealth BG to unload. Or blind fire, such blind fire during WWI downed a plane after all.

If a sniper is stationary I don't think weight should be considered only when shooting or moving, as weight means sound and sound means perception can see. This way the sniper will most likely always be hidden and have a chance to get a shot off at least. Why shouldn't the hidden camper always get the first shot?

Snipers IRL and in games should be campers. They dominate games for a reason. In most of the games I've played snipers are anti tank weapons. Out ranged, and enough damage to ruin a tank's momentum.

It'd be cool if Guns were divided between Rifles and Automatics. With any single shot weapon's accuracy being determined by the rifles skill, while any burst fire with Small guns being determined by Automatics.

Auto firing a shotgun isn't the same as aiming a sniper scope.

[Wind_Drift]

Can we get a facepalm smiley for the forum?

[Kaaon]

Can we get a facepalm smiley for the forum?

+1