Sneak changes

[Blarney]

Kilgore told in some post, that sneaking will be item depend skill (or something like that)

Anyway, most of sneaking changes will be for PvP and I don't really mind that (in some point there was a lot arguments about sneaking in PvP and Kilgore started took action), I have totally different usage for it.

Sneaking dependent on an item? One would assume the stealthboy, but who knows. I don't know about that approach, as when it comes to items obviously the rich will have an abundance and the poor little to none, I wouldn't want sneaking falling into an elitist only category.

Thanks for the info and input

If you don't mind me asking what do you use sneak for? I personally use it in solo combat when visiting dangerous towns etc.

[Barneys]

Why is your name "blarney"?

[StudMuffin]

Ehh not many people use sneaks in anything but to check positions.

[Blarney]

Why is your name "blarney"?

Strange question, I guess because I chose it to be that.

If you have the rights to the name barney or any barney related usages in names, I'll gladly have it changed

If you are asking if there is any specific meaning to the name, I'd say no.

[Wind_Drift]

Ehh not many people use sneaks in anything but to check positions.

Off the top of my head I can think of a half dozen players that use their sneaks offensively as well as for scouting, and I'm sure there are more.

Their use isn't the main issue so much as the investment vs reward IMO.

[Troll]

investment vs reward

basically a leather jacket and a p90 vs combat gear, maybe good armor and weapons, ammo, stims, a set of drugs.

[Wind_Drift]

investment vs reward

basically a leather jacket and a p90 vs combat gear, maybe good armor and weapons, ammo, stims, a set of drugs.

I mean perks and (infinite) skill points as well.

It was different when we had a level cap. High IN was required, usually Skilled trait as well. Ghost used to work, leaving us only about 5 other perks to work with, and maybe max 180-200 weapons skill.

It was better balanced then, IMO.

[Troll]

It was different when we had a level cap. High IN was required, usually Skilled trait as well. Ghost used to work, leaving us only about 5 other perks to work with, and maybe max 180-200 weapons skill.

It was better balanced then, IMO.

True, exp gained from private mine and crafting stuff with autoclickers broke that balance. Still, I like the infinite lvl thing. The proplem is "how to get those lvls?". Maybe crafting should work like first aid, giving exp, but only until your reach lvl 30 (I think it's 30, not sure). Getting to lvl 100 would require a lot more time, and a 2 INT sneaker would be a bad choice again.

[Wind_Drift]

It was different when we had a level cap. High IN was required, usually Skilled trait as well. Ghost used to work, leaving us only about 5 other perks to work with, and maybe max 180-200 weapons skill.

It was better balanced then, IMO.

True, exp gained from private mine and crafting stuff with autoclickers broke that balance. Still, I like the infinite lvl thing. The proplem is "how to get those lvls?". Maybe crafting should work like first aid, giving exp, but only until your reach lvl 30 (I think it's 30, not sure). Getting to lvl 100 would require a lot more time, and a 2 INT sneaker would be a bad choice again.

I like the no level cap thing as well, I just feel like not everything was fully balanced as a result of that (good) change.

If not much changes for sneakers next session I'll still be happy, and I'll continue to play one either way.

My current sneaker was base 4 IN, also. Leveled totally without autoclicker as well.

[Blarney]

As much as I like the no level cap, it literally breaks the ideal behind skillpoints seeing as they are the only thing you get past level 24. All skills are somewhat available to everyone with the only restriction being time spent grinding, which is weird.
Taking a high int is really at your own direct loss, as if you take 8-10 int, you will soon find (level 90ish) that you have way too many skillpoints and the next 300 levels become literally pointless.

This is why I wouldn't mind so much if they added a soft skill cap or something to prevent the eventual maxing of most skills by everyone.

[Troll]

You mean something like in AOP?
I liked that change, making int really usefull.

[Kirkor]

I agree, sneakers should be scouts and not some killing machines. I also like current armor+weapon sneak penalties, but maybe they should add "SMG" category for weapon penalties?

Ghost is useless, but Kilgore told last time that there won't be changes for it. Silent Running, I think there should be higher requirements for it.

The thing is I can stand 30 hexes behind or to the side of you with an LSW in my inventory and then put it in my hand and nail you... the penalty doesn't matter, no one is dumb enough to run around with it in a hand slot.

I did this to a sniper in Reno the other day, crit for 306 with an LSW. It was retarded. Even worse, same mechanics apply to any BG including Bozar. That's just too much, if there is to be a weapon penalty it should count for your whole inventory (like active explosives penalty), not just the hand slots. JMHO

This.
I remember we fought sneakers with bozars. It's not fun to fight with invisible burster, who can kill tank with 2-3 bursts from afar.

I also don't like that sneaker can go around with some crap stuff and still be very dangerous. They can kill well equipped fighter having only leather jacket and some crappy SMG...

IMO sneak should be capped at 200-250 and to get 300 sneak you should have special sneaker gear (sneaker armor + stealthboy).
And as Wind_Drift already said, the weapon penalty should be for whole inventory, not only for hand slots.

[Johnny]

I have absolutly no experience in sneak its been 2 days i play a sneaker to try new things and i must say its the more fun character to play.

I agree with the fact that most of the kills you do with a seaker are very retarded. Kirkor is right to mention it, wih a sneak you grab a crap leather armor a p90 and you can basically wreck havoc anywhere. Damage of the p90 with 3 brd is absolutly insane.

P90 is okay since it really does damage if you get close but you shouldnt be able to be a walking turret with bozar or avenger.

And as Wind_Drift already said, the weapon penalty should be for whole inventory, not only for hand slots.

It will prevent bozar sneaker or lsw or avenger yes, but what if you kill a guy with an avenger loot it, your sneak skill got a penalty someone else pop up and see you from 30hex and kill you 

Skill cap at 250 + stealth boy to get 300 is a good idea if stealth boyz can be farmed (for example like in ares but in bigger quantities?)

[Wind_Drift]

Stealth Boy requirement would also work if they were rechargeable and reusable instead of just one-time use items.

The idea behind making the sneak penalty apply to BG in inventory is because the current penalty is so easily bypassed that it effectively doesn't matter. There is probably more than one solution though, I suppose we'll see what happens, if anything.

[Kilgore]

Posts in this thread only ensure me that changes which will be done to sneak skill are good. Even if it means that sneak will be nerfed a lot.