Some ideas.

[Johnny]

So i got a few ideas im gonna throw in there and make it as readable as i can.
Took me some time to study it and to make it as clear and easy to read as possible.

I-Concerning critical hits table.

- Either completly remove KO from the game and replace it with Knock-downs or increase the roll value needed for them to the top end of the critical hit table.
Only one roll should end in KO, and it should be only achievable via taking "better critical" perk. My idea is to put KO roll just before the "instant death" roll or completly remove it or replace KO roll by knock down.
In that case knock down from aimed shots could have the same effect as a shotgun burst ( less powerful) to prevent tanks from rushing snipers too easily.

II- Perks rebalance.
Today, only full tank or snipers are a viable option i suggest this to allow different types of builds:

- "Toughness" Either keep only one rank of it with the current threshold/Dr bonus and apply the resistance to all type of damages (if you intend to delete phoenix and dermal implant level enhancement otherwise keep it only normal damage), or reduce "even tougher" bonus to the same as 'toughness".

- "Better Criticals" need a change, curently this perk isnt countered by anything, you need to get MOs+ bonehead and it only counter head shot not groin shot or other bodyparts. That make one perk + one trait to counter one perk (as previously said it even doesnt counter it entirely).
I suggest to change Better crit to +10 crit roll instead of +20. This will revalorized at the same time rbte.

- "Man of steel" need a buff ( only if better criticals stay the way it is currently).
I suggest to add a -10 crit roll to the head and -20 to the body ( instead of -10 )

- "Hit the gaps" should require gun skills ( small guns, big guns or energy weapons) not unarmed to make it a good perk for crit build.

III- Weapon damage rebalance
Linked to my perks rebalance suggestions, to prevent tanks to deal damage and tank at the same time.
Also this will allow lower tier weapon to still deal significant amount of damage.

1- Ammo rebalance (5mm ammo is taken as example here)

- All ammo should have a damage modifier 1/1.

- Keep the -DR bonuse from AP but change the +DR mod of JHP to 0 instead of +30DR.

2- Damage rebalance
Because its not rare to see a gatling hit for 300 at range and then for 60 non crit.
And because we also need to make lower tier weapons viable for beginners/new factions and keep things alive here.

- Bursting weapon like gatling / minigun / avenger should have their damage potential changed.
Ex of the avenger with using 1/1 dmg modifier AP ammo should deal between 10-12 dmge.
Ex of the gatling should deal something like 60-70 instead of 49-99.

- assault rifles and SG low tier bursting weapon should be able to compete with more advanced tiers.
EX assault rifle should deal 20-25 and Xl 25-30.

- Sniper weapons should all have penetrate perk ( sniper rifle, laser rifle, bozar, gauss)
This will help sniper builds to deal with tanks better + with the KD effect i suggested earlier (projection like pancor burst but less powerful)

- Bozar need a change as it is a sniper weapon. I suggest to make it like it was originally planned to be: remove its burst mode and keep single.

IV- Crafting bonuses/ Weapon perk bonuses

- Remove -ap bonuse from weapons ( this will even things up if taken in consideration my suggestion about changing ammo damage and put big guns to 6ap evening things up and revalorize Jet wich decrease DR and by this solve tank mass stacking DR problem also).
- Remove hidden crit roll bonuses of plasma weapons and replace it by the penetrate perk.
- Keep the crit roll bonuses from crafting this is enough.


I strongly believe that these changes could bring a fresh air breath to the current server pvp situation wich is broken for some weapons/ perks.


 

[Kaaon]

I-Concerning critical hits table.

- Either completly remove KO from the game and replace it with Knock-downs or increase the roll value needed for them to the top end of the critical hit table.
Only one roll should end in KO, and it should be only achievable via taking "better critical" perk. My idea is to put KO roll just before the "instant death" roll or completly remove it or replace KO roll by knock down.
In that case knock down from aimed shots could have the same effect as a shotgun burst ( less powerful) to prevent tanks from rushing snipers too easily.

if KO would be only in last line on crit table then it would be removed from PvP too because..
+20 better crits -10 bonehead -10 combat helm = 0   so your roll is still only 0-100 even with better crits
chance to do KO is already very low (except tpr)
-1

II- Perks rebalance.
- "Toughness" Either keep only one rank of it with the current threshold/Dr bonus and apply the resistance to all type of damages (if you intend to delete phoenix and dermal implant level enhancement otherwise keep it only normal damage), or reduce "even tougher" bonus to the same as 'toughness".

i must agree that having +3dt +10dr in one perk is too much, +2dt +8dr for even tougher would be fine IMO
+1

- "Better Criticals" need a change, curently this perk isnt countered by anything, you need to get MOs+ bonehead and it only counter head shot not groin shot or other bodyparts. That make one perk + one trait to counter one perk (as previously said it even doesnt counter it entirely).
I suggest to change Better crit to +10 crit roll instead of +20. This will revalorized at the same time rbte.

- "Man of steel" need a buff ( only if better criticals stay the way it is currently).
I suggest to add a -10 crit roll to the head and -20 to the body ( instead of -10 )

- "Hit the gaps" should require gun skills ( small guns, big guns or energy weapons) not unarmed to make it a good perk for crit build.

eyes/head are most strong, mainly beacause of their critical chance boost
if bc crit would be giving only +10 and mos +20 then vs bonehead+combathelm+mos you would be rolling only 0(-30)-70 which means that all aims would be useless (+10bc -20mos -10helm -10bonehead = -30)
hit the gaps is worth only for bursters as its not reducing crit power (same as rbte) and 5% crit chance is for aimed attacks is good only as lvl 3 perk, for bursters should be 2 crit perks enough because i think that we dont need 200hp 30cc builds, but i would rather suggest to change it to be only for hth chars as it wasnt intended to be used by guns
-1

btw.. here i suggest to decrease crit chance mod on armor by 5 and decrease crit multipliter on torso crit table as compensation
reasoning : current crit mod on armor forces burster builds to have 0 or 25 crit chance because having everything between 0-20 is like nothing since its mostly reduced by crit mod and also it makes crit bursts too random, atm chance to score crit with burst is very low but when you crit its 3x higher damage so fighting as crit burster looks like nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, boom epic crit as for 25cc you have to survive alot of special points and 2 perks..
for aims it wouldnt be big chance since almost all players are aiming eyes and this would affect only armor (leg/groin/arms) so this would give small boost to legs/groin/arms which arent much used

III- Weapon damage rebalance
Linked to my perks rebalance suggestions, to prevent tanks to deal damage and tank at the same time.
Also this will allow lower tier weapon to still deal significant amount of damage.

1- Ammo rebalance (5mm ammo is taken as example here)

- All ammo should have a damage modifier 1/1.

- Keep the -DR bonuse from AP but change the +DR mod of JHP to 0 instead of +30DR.

is there any reason to rebalance ammo ? this would need too much balancing..
-1

2- Damage rebalance
Because its not rare to see a gatling hit for 300 at range and then for 60 non crit.
And because we also need to make lower tier weapons viable for beginners/new factions and keep things alive here.

- Bursting weapon like gatling / minigun / avenger should have their damage potential changed.
Ex of the avenger with using 1/1 dmg modifier AP ammo should deal between 10-12 dmge.
Ex of the gatling should deal something like 60-70 instead of 49-99.

- assault rifles and SG low tier bursting weapon should be able to compete with more advanced tiers.
EX assault rifle should deal 20-25 and Xl 25-30.

- Sniper weapons should all have penetrate perk ( sniper rifle, laser rifle, bozar, gauss)
This will help sniper builds to deal with tanks better + with the KD effect i suggested earlier (projection like pancor burst but less powerful)

- Bozar need a change as it is a sniper weapon. I suggest to make it like it was originally planned to be: remove its burst mode and keep single.

i agree that weapons like gatling, XL70E3 and few other needs to have decreased damage range because their max dmg is 2x higher then minimum which makes game too much about RNG - luck - dmg roll
+1

to assault rifle.. all lower tier weapons are completely unused and could be rebalanced to be almost good as others, this would make them useful while starting game
+1

bursting wpns which doesnt requires any brd / sniper weapons.. penetrate isnt needed as aimed attacks are 1 crit hit -> they are easily bypassing DT, problem with dmg of normal weapon is much complicated problem.. this had to be main part of my balance suggestion.. if you read all changelogs you can notice that almost ALL normal damage type weapons was boosted one by one instead of nerfing stacking of DR and some of them even twice and thier damage is still low because of how high its possible to stack DR

but if you nerf damage of bursing weapons then tanks would be invincible
if you nerf tanks then everyone would be dying in 1-3 ranged bursts, just like now all non fully implanted tanks
but you cant change all those bursting wpns, implants, tank perks, drugs and everything at once while going from season to next season because after complete rebalance it would need alot of feedback and another balancing which would show again in like middle of next season and doing balance changes during season is not good idea too

when will peoples start looking at problem from this side instead of telling like boost X, add X critroll to this ?

[mojuk]

Changing weapons' damage + resistance perks + ammo mods... lots of ideas, new numbers but 0 Math behind it and no real argumentation for those new values.
"It's too big, lets change it to 21-31. It's too low let's change it to 32-39". Sure, but why 21-31 and 32-39 not 22-29 and 33-51?
No calculations for minimum, maximum, average damage in current situation and after suggested changes (both with and without suggested changes to armors/perks). No comparison to any other weapons after those changes. In short "let's change X by 2 and Y by 1 and see what happens is not a valid suggestion.

[Johnny]

To mojuk: im not patient enough and have no intention to do calculation thats not my role, im just here to put my ideas and discuss them with others.

To seki: As usual your knowledge is much appreciated, waiting your suggestions thread with great interest.
- Concerning mos i said i propose to buff it only for bodyparts not for head and only IF better crit remain unchanged. So it would be for head +20 (bc) -10bonehead -10 mos =O and for body +20 (bc) -20 (mos) = 0 so i guess it even things up better.

-Concerning ammo rebalance i think its a good idea but i agree theres more urgent things to do now than that, still the system of damage for ammo have no reason to apply in the first place and 0 damage mod for jhp is a good idea imo and doesnt require much time.

- Concerning Ko, i think it should be completly removed yes and replace with knock back + knock down.

- penetrate perk seems to be a good idea to me because if you dont score a critical hit the dr reduction form the weapon perk will still apply that a little buff for normal damage weapons

[StudMuffin]

That moment when you realise you don't play this game enough.