Finesse

[shemsu]

As in topic.
I have a finesse char, it has 5 luck (couse perks don't require any luck) my crit chance is 25%, got better criticals. Still my crits vs npc's suck- either they don't occur at all, or they aren't powerfull enough to be satisfactory. I used to play cripplers all the time in 2238 and a combination od finesse + more critical + better critical= awesome! Now this this perk combo= fail.
Whats with finesse? It suck when using .44 ammo, jhp ammo(of all kinds, tested it) .45cal doesn't seems to do any diffrence. I'm running short of ideas. It seems finesse does rise enemy's DT or DR or whatever, but it doesn't help with critical shots bursting my foes open. Help!

[MickM]

How high is your skill level?

[shemsu]

It's around 185% i don't remember the exact value, but it's pretty much that. I didn't think that skill level might be a factor of my failiure.

[paco]

Here's an exerpt straight out of my codebase. I hope this helps you understand.

Code: [Select]

#define MIN 0
#define MAX 1
int16_t gun_damage[2];
uint8_t damage_adjustment[2]; //elements of the quotient, takes less memory as 2x8bit integer than 1x32bit float
bool finesse;
int8_t drmod_your_ammo;
int8_t drmod_target; //varies greatly

float damage_done[2];

//here we actually assign values to everything except for damage_done array elements

float your_nerf = 30*finesse+drmod_your_ammo+drmod_target;
if(your_nerf > 90)
{
    your_nerf = 0.1;
}
else
{
    your_nerf = 1 - your_nerf/100;
}
damage_done[MIN] = gun_damage[MIN]*damage_adjustment[0]/damage_adjustment[1]*your_nerf;
damage_done[MAX] = gun_damage[MAX]*damage_adjustment[0]/damage_adjustment[1]*your_nerf;

It's around 185% i don't remember the exact value, but it's pretty much that. I didn't think that skill level might be a factor of my failiure.

Note that the amount of damage done is not directly affected by your skill.
The actual damage done is varied between damage_done[0] and damage_done[1] by chance, if you successfully rolled for a success in hitting the target.

[shemsu]

Wow, thats..thats..something..

I hope this helps you understand.

I'm sorry, but no
I know its all based on roll vs targets DR, multipliers of ammo, weapon, armor type, perks etc, and i think i understood how it used to work in 2238, but here (in which case i am very happy, cause reloaded rocks compared to 2238) i actually dont know how to make my char kick ass instead of sucking it.
So if:

Yes, Finesse and certain weapon/ammo types work really bad.

which weapons/ammo work?
And:
Which characters actually should take it?
And #2:
How does finesse work?

Sorry, im just really curious about it.

[totylkoja]

Ok when it comes to critical chance: http://www.fonline-reloaded.net/wiki/index.php?title=Aimed_Attack
Now you know why to take 10 luck char ;].

How does Finesse work : http://www.fonline-reloaded.net/wiki/index.php?title=Finesse

And when it comes to ammo, you need to remember that certain ammo (like .44 jhp) increases targets DR, so if you add that AND the 30% increase from finesse, the damage you deal to a NPC is close to nothing.
I would recommend using finesse only with AP weapons and ammo, like the 14mm pistol: http://www.fonline-reloaded.net/wiki/index.php?title=14mm_AP
Also try using wiki next time, it`s realy not that hard :p

[paco]

Wow, thats..thats..something..

I hope this helps you understand.

I'm sorry, but no

This code basically means this:
The minimum damage you do, is:
minimum damage of the weapon * damage adjustment of the ammo * nerf
The maximum is similarly:
maximum damage of the weapon * damage adjustment of the ammo * nerf
Nerf is calculated in 3 steps.
1. Total DR of your target + DR from your ammo
2. If you have finesse, add 30
3. If this is already greater than 90, then you set the value of nerf to 0.1. Otherwise:
nerf = 1 - (DR of target + DR of ammo + 30 if you have finesse or 0 if not)/100

As you know, ammo has its own DR modifiers: it can add or subtract DR. The damage adjustment is that "2/1" ratio on 10mm jhp for one example.

[shemsu]

Thanks Totylkoja- i did refered to wiki, but since its supposedly outdated, i didn't know how much of it applies. Although your insights helped 

Thanks Paco- now i understand that matrix, you've posted, and it is pretty simple

See you guys in the wastes, that is unless i get a good gun and cripple your eyes first