FOnline Reloaded RANT

[Wichura]

I just find it funny that all the FOnline devs and ex-devs love putting players on blast for being "ungrateful morons" and what-not while at the same time it's those players that put them in this "elevated" position in the first place. Like I said, the number of releases from various dev-teams last month is probably in the triple digits and yet every FOnline dev ever feels like a special snowflake after working on this game for a while. Fallout theme aside, it's really nothing special. In fact, it's pretty sub-standard in so many ways I won't even bother making a list.

Ungrateful morons were only a minority, just like now in Reloaded's case. Same few guys are complaining about same few things since the beginning of this session. Most of players was really happy we bring them something to play, I remember a couple of blokes being really professional and engaged testers. I was feeling honoured being able to spawn them some free pixels as an insufficient but the only way to say "thank you".

Becoming a FOnline dev is nothig special really. Just download SDK, run the server, change a thing or two, announce it and boom, done and dusted. Bragging around and waving "all my hardwork done for free" flag was never that easy.

Consider this:
- how many people would be playing FOnline if it didn't rely on the work of Black Isle and if everything was 100% original
- without the Fallout coating, how many devs would come to a conclusion that they can tell the 5 players that are actually interested in playing this stuff to fuck off

- we may never know the answer, some free games made from scratch gathered a big crowd of fans, some were forgotten completely
- depends on arrogance level of such persons, no idea then

That's my $0.02 on false entitlement in this community. It goes both ways, and what we see here is bringing this retardation to a whole new level. What should be a nostalgia trip to the late nineties turned into a massive dick-waving contest because creator bias made some people believe they can do nothing wrong. And this isn't just about Reloaded. In fact, most FOnline servers turn out like that. I guess it's a combination of unrealistic expectations from the players, nostalgia and unrealistic ambitions from the devs that ultimately turns every project into a shit-show.

How do you know someone is wrong? When you see them doing not what you want and/or not in a way you want? That's a bit selfish, my friend.
Nobody knows if it's right or wrong regarding the recent changes on Reloaded. It will be possible to judge after some time, word being spreaded and officialy getting out of testing session, which I believe current one is considered as such. I'll laugh my ass off when all the crybabies come back then to play "their" game again, obviously being a favourite one from now on.

At this point, I wouldn't even say I'm trying to give any advice here. I mean it's obvious the devs weren't interested in that, because they're the Fallout (tm) devs, and this obviously means that they're Always Right (tm) - even though the audience they have is mostly Black Isle fans who enjoy the rather randomly created 2238 PvP formula, and not really their fans. The devs feel like they're prisoners to this formula and want to break free - get creative. This "prisoner" thingie also makes them bitter when it comes to dealing with the players, because in the end, 2238 pew pew isn't really Fallout, and the devs are some of the most hardcore Fallout fans you could find. As a result, the players - especially the 2238 pew pew fans - feel like this isn't something that they want to play after a certain threshold of unacceptable changes is reached. Bam. It flops. A parody of a Shakespearean tragedy, in which nobody is to blame.

Please show me on the Mr Nixon's doll where the bad ugly dev touched you without your permission.

I never considered myself a big Fallout fan, I just like the setting. Also I still don't know what kind of players will come to Reloaded with overhauled gameplay (if any), but I already know the ones being around now. Hell, I even wonder seeing some new nicknames "who's alt is this?", just like in good ol' smelly swamp of 2238 in its later stage. How about some new kids on the block for a change?

But then again it's not like this is the first time this sort of shit happened (2238, anyone?) and some people probably ought to know better. No hard feelings either way, I've got plenty of other games to play.

2238 died due to lack of clear, consistent road map, no leadership, random changes of random shit based on random people's ideas. Also back then there was no real alternative if your Russian was poor. Now there's a choice and having a choice is what I admire, as I admire freedom.

I just couldn't help myself and wanted to post this "I told you so" here.

Let's keep this thread for say a year or two and come back then to see who was right, shall we?

[Nice_Boat]

How do you know someone is wrong? When you see them doing not what you want and/or not in a way you want? That's a bit selfish, my friend.

I have no "wants" here, as I'm not an active player. There are many objective ways to assess that: player population, basic game design principles (mostly game theory; risk/reward ratios and so on). If a dev goes "O_O" when I tell him that there's no incentive for TC from a game theory standpoint... you know, this shit really is a bit too complicated to just stumble into the right solution.

Nobody knows if it's right or wrong regarding the recent changes on Reloaded. It will be possible to judge after some time, word being spreaded and officialy getting out of testing session, which I believe current one is considered as such. I'll laugh my ass off when all the crybabies come back then to play "their" game again, obviously being a favourite one from now on.

I think you're being delusional right now.

Please show me on the Mr Nixon's doll where the bad ugly dev touched you without your permission.

I'm not active enough to feel salty about this shit. Like I said, for me it feels like an autopsy.

I never considered myself a big Fallout fan, I just like the setting. Also I still don't know what kind of players will come to Reloaded with overhauled gameplay (if any), but I already know the ones being around now. Hell, I even wonder seeing some new nicknames "who's alt is this?", just like in good ol' smelly swamp of 2238 in its later stage. How about some new kids on the block for a change?

What new kids? FOnline has been around for almost a decade. What you see is what you get.

2238 died due to lack of clear, consistent road map, no leadership, random changes of random shit based on random people's ideas. Also back then there was no real alternative if your Russian was poor. Now there's a choice and having a choice is what I admire, as I admire freedom.

Yeah. Random, misguided outbursts of creativity in a community that essentially reached a sort-of consensus about what it wants.

Let's keep this thread for say a year or two and come back then to see who was right, shall we?

Okay. Not gonna hold my breath tho. Mindsets would have to change, and we all know that people on both sides are way too stubborn for that to happen. And even if it did, it's really hard to recover from a 60%+ population drop. Like, you seem to have no idea how hard it is.

[Wichura]

I have no "wants" here, as I'm not an active player. There are many objective ways to assess that: player population, basic game design principles (mostly game theory; risk/reward ratios and so on). If a dev goes "O_O" when I tell him that there's no incentive for TC from a game theory standpoint... you know, this shit really is a bit too complicated to just stumble into the right solution.

In my personal opinion I find TC in current shape(s) one of the most useless and cancerogenic features of FOnlines in general. It makes towns almost dead 95% of time, nobody so far found a reasonable and impossible to abuse way of actually "controlling" the town. But it's just me, participated TC sometimes as a civilian, watched it as a dev with invisible mode enabled, the only thing more boring is digging rocks in designated mines.

Nobody knows if it's right or wrong regarding the recent changes on Reloaded. It will be possible to judge after some time, word being spreaded and officialy getting out of testing session, which I believe current one is considered as such. I'll laugh my ass off when all the crybabies come back then to play "their" game again, obviously being a favourite one from now on.

I think you're being delusional right now.

I think it's too early to say this. But I accept the fact I might be wrong in my humble foreseeing attempts. Do you?

Please show me on the Mr Nixon's doll where the bad ugly dev touched you without your permission.

I'm not active enough to feel salty about this shit. Like I said, for me it feels like an autopsy.

I was hoping you'll like my little joke.

I never considered myself a big Fallout fan, I just like the setting. Also I still don't know what kind of players will come to Reloaded with overhauled gameplay (if any), but I already know the ones being around now. Hell, I even wonder seeing some new nicknames "who's alt is this?", just like in good ol' smelly swamp of 2238 in its later stage. How about some new kids on the block for a change?

What new kids? FOnline has been around for almost a decade. What you see is what you get.

New kids that haven't got used to full loot, open pvp, TC crap and so on. Those raised on MMO's where you don't loose your pixels when you die, where a game grabs your hand and points you directly, more carebearish so to speak. No idea if after a decade, few miserable attempts ("Desert Europe" for instance) and spamming "FOnline" phrase all over the Internet you can still find many of those. I'll sit and watch just out of curiosity.

2238 died due to lack of clear, consistent road map, no leadership, random changes of random shit based on random people's ideas. Also back then there was no real alternative if your Russian was poor. Now there's a choice and having a choice is what I admire, as I admire freedom.

Yeah. Random, misguided outbursts of creativity in a community that essentially reached a sort-of consensus about what it wants.

So what it wants?

Let's keep this thread for say a year or two and come back then to see who was right, shall we?

Okay. Not gonna hold my breath tho. Mindsets would have to change, and we all know that people on both sides are way too stubborn for that to happen. And even if it did, it's really hard to recover from a 60%+ population drop. Like, you seem to have no idea how hard it is.

Attracting new players and raising numbers to hundreds is easy as fuck. This has been practised by many teams and individuals, spam cannons are in place, piece of cake.
Figure out how to make those hundreds stay and play for more than 3 days. So far nobody was successful with this one, by whatever means were in use. FOnlines keep attracting the same autistic creatures over and over, but pool of these is quite narrow. So either it remains as it is (c) or by complete redesigning the gameplay new kind of players will appear. Maybe.

[Nice_Boat]

I think it's too early to say this. But I accept the fact I might be wrong in my humble foreseeing attempts. Do you?

I have a rather strong opinion and I already outlined why.

New kids that haven't got used to full loot, open pvp, TC crap and so on. Those raised on MMO's where you don't loose your pixels when you die, where a game grabs your hand and points you directly, more carebearish so to speak. No idea if after a decade, few miserable attempts ("Desert Europe" for instance) and spamming "FOnline" phrase all over the Internet you can still find many of those. I'll sit and watch just out of curiosity.

And why would they want to play this game instead of any other MMO? You're talking about the kind of gamers that dropped Destiny 2 because there wasn't enough content. And Destiny 2 is pretty fucking big compared to any FOnline server. I mean for fuck's sake, let's be realistic here for once. Casual gamers aren't a good target group for a game of this kind, because it's way too old and way too small.

So what it wants?

A 2238 clone with less bullshit? Wasn't it obvious from the very beginning? They just want to pew pew in peace. In fact, they're pew pewing in peace elsewhere right now.

Attracting new players and raising numbers to hundreds is easy as fuck. This has been practised by many teams and individuals, spam cannons are in place, piece of cake.
Figure out how to make those hundreds stay and play for more than 3 days. So far nobody was successful with this one, by whatever means were in use. FOnlines keep attracting the same autistic creatures over and over, but pool of these is quite narrow. So either it remains as it is (c) or by complete redesigning the gameplay new kind of players will appear. Maybe.

Those "autistic creatures" are willing to forgive those FOnline servers their basic faults. That's why they're coming back. Those same faults, that can't really be eliminated, also make them completely inaccessible for most newcomers. It's not rocket science.

Anyway this discussion is getting kind of boring, so unless you've got something more poignant to say than "let's just wait and see, maybe we'll get a thousand casuals here in a decade or so" - I'm kind of done here.

[Johnny]

New kids?

Yeah, in a game where maybe 200 people play lets make it even less by deliberatly pushing away our core playerbase. Because you know, we dont have any idea how to improve pvp, how to balance it, we are bored and are sick of fonline in general. So let's blame the community and aim for random casuals who will quit after two days, two weeks, two months because lets face it, without PvP this game is complete trash and the content is too small to keep players around except die hard fans.

In my personal opinion I find TC in current shape(s) one of the most useless and cancerogenic features of FOnlines in general. It makes towns almost dead 95% of time,

Towns are dead anyway except from Hub. Once again too few people play this game to make all towns alive and then the random casuals you are aiming for stay in tent or avoid social interaction anyway.

[Wichura]

And why would they want to play this game instead of any other MMO? You're talking about the kind of gamers that dropped Destiny 2 because there wasn't enough content. And Destiny 2 is pretty fucking big compared to any FOnline server. I mean for fuck's sake, let's be realistic here for once. Casual gamers aren't a good target group for a game of this kind, because it's way too old and way too small.

I had in mind casual players from more or less my Chernobyl Generation (born in 80's), those who remember playing singleplayer Fallouts 1 and 2. How do you attract such grandpas, seeking for some adventure in a Fallout setting without digging through game guides for ages and calculating The Perfect Build? By showing them fast pace action movies in "PvP section", full of disgusting no walls mods, shitty music background, random nicknames, gangs namecolorized with bad taste colors and chaos in general? Well, I wonder why this doesn't work in their case.
Console casuals won't be interested in this kind of game anyway. Nothing to do here, too much reading, technical problems with running the client, graphics are ugly, shiny stars don't pop up when you manage not to die in first 10 seconds. Move along.

A 2238 clone with less bullshit? Wasn't it obvious from the very beginning? They just want to pew pew in peace. In fact, they're pew pewing in peace elsewhere right now.

There's plenty of 2238 clones recently, none became super popular. And their devs, according to what they announce, are listening to players. Odd.

Those "autistic creatures" are willing to forgive those FOnline servers their basic faults. That's why they're coming back. Those same faults, that can't really be eliminated, also make them completely inaccessible for most newcomers. It's not rocket science.

So are we ready to conclude FOnline idea as such is bankrupted and nothing can be done about it?

Anyway this discussion is getting kind of boring, so unless you've got something more poignant to say than "let's just wait and see, maybe we'll get a thousand casuals here in a decade or so" - I'm kind of done here.

No, not really. Thanks for your time then.

Yeah, in a game where maybe 200 people play lets make it even less by deliberatly pushing away our core playerbase.

Core playerbase is playing the game now, they are not gone anywhere. "Semper fidelis" rule makes them the core. But I'm tired of explaining this simple fact over and over, like banging a head against the wall.

Because you know, we dont have any idea how to improve pvp, how to balance it, we are bored and are sick of fonline in general. So let's blame the community and aim for random casuals who will quit after two days, two weeks, two months because lets face it, without PvP this game is complete trash and the content is too small to keep players around except die hard fans.

When I got bored of making FOnline, I just stopped doing it without blaming anyone. But I'm not good drama queen.
As far as I know there's no "PvP disabled" gay option anywhere on popular servers. Unguarded towns remain unguarded, you can freely smash some n00bs for glory and lulz. They don't drop pixels anymore on Reloaded, but hey, who needs some n00b shitty gear, fun matters, isn't it? Isn't it?

Towns are dead anyway except from Hub. Once again too few people play this game to make all towns alive and then the random casuals you are aiming for stay in tent or avoid social interaction anyway.

Map is too big in general and traveling speed is still too slow. Once again - FOnline2 has worldmap redesigned, so it's easier to spot someone.
Social interactions happen to me quite often for FOnline standards, but I'm the weird one that says "hi" to a stranger instead of bursting as soon as they approach. Maybe we define "interaction" differently here.

[Johnny]

casuals won't be interested in this kind of game anyway. Nothing to do here, too much reading, technical problems with running the client, graphics are ugly, shiny stars don't pop up when you manage not to die in first 10 seconds. Move along.

So again I who too is starting to be tired to repeat myself, wonder why do the game try to attract those players? Maybe read your own posts next time, you pretty much answer to yourself.

Unguarded towns remain unguarded, you can freely smash some n00bs for glory and lulz. They don't drop pixels anymore on Reloaded, but hey, who needs some n00b shitty gear, fun matters, isn't it? Isn't it?

Isn't it? Isn't it what? Why you assume because you got shot and pissed on by some random dudes on the internet because yes we are on the internet and people when they are protected behind their screen magically gain a pair of balls and since they are not used to that feeling they tend to get carried away.
Dont assume thats the case for every pvp player here.
Contrary to you i think pve and pvp players can get along just fine. I personnally have no problem with players who want to roleplay in the hub or stay  in their tent, but you seem to have an overgrown hate towards pvp. Maybe review your priority after all its just a game to have fun. If people have their fun shooting each others why do that remotly bother you.
And since when this is some kind of competition after all there should be a place for loners, pvp faction, pvers, roleplayers.
Dont assume that you are representative of the majority, neither am I. I'm just throwing my 2 cents.

Concerning the other servers the only reason why I dont play or even try them is because i dont waste my time grinding. I dont find it fun period. And on that regard reloaded is declining thx to people who said "its too easy to get items, I want them all for myself others dont deserve them".

For other servers to gain popularity you need to get rid of this one first. I dont think the game can improve in any way considering its just impossible to exchange with the devs about anything without ending in the "tears this, tears that section".

Once again if you cannot take any criticism dont develop. If you still do so be ready for them and accept them.

[Wichura]

So again I who too is starting to be tired to repeat myself, wonder why do the game try to attract those players? Maybe read your own posts next time, you pretty much answer to yourself.

I clearly stated what kind of casuals I mean in terms of attracting them to oldschool Fallout setting.

Isn't it? Isn't it what? Why you assume because you got shot and pissed on by some random dudes on the internet because yes we are on the internet and people when they are protected behind their screen magically gain a pair of balls and since they are not used to that feeling they tend to get carried away.
Dont assume thats the case for every pvp player here.

I'm way too old for raging about lost pixels. If my character dies, well, tough shit, move on. However since my free time is limited I kinda like the features that save it for me so I can focus on shooting geckos instead of providing a supply chain.

Contrary to you i think pve and pvp players can get along just fine.

Correct.

I personnally have no problem with players who want to roleplay in the hub or stay  in their tent, but you seem to have an overgrown hate towards pvp. Maybe review your priority after all its just a game to have fun. If people have their fun shooting each others why do that remotly bother you.

I have no idea where did you find a hate towards anyone in my posts. I may not like this or that particular guy's attitude or poor manners, but overall I don't hate anonymous players of some video game. Why would I? They did nothing wrong to me.
I'm not bothered with anyone's game style or activities, especially with worldmap so big you could easily fit triple as much characters and still have most of public locations deserted. Sometimes I feel a bit disappointed when my favourite vendors are out of caps because I wasn't quick enough.

And since when this is some kind of competition after all there should be a place for loners, pvp faction, pvers, roleplayers.

Wasn't my idea to bring this artificial dividing into play.

Dont assume that you are representative of the majority, neither am I. I'm just throwing my 2 cents.

Once again - I'm just a bystander, came here to get some fun during cold rainy evening.

Concerning the other servers the only reason why I dont play or even try them is because i dont waste my time grinding. I dont find it fun period. And on that regard reloaded is declining thx to people who said "its too easy to get items, I want them all for myself others dont deserve them".

Oh yeah, I also don't like this tedious process of leveling until your character is more or less viable to actually play.

For other servers to gain popularity you need to get rid of this one first. I dont think the game can improve in any way considering its just impossible to exchange with the devs about anything without ending in the "tears this, tears that section".

I think if there are some decisions already made, us plain peasants can just accept it or move elsewhere.

Once again if you cannot take any criticism dont develop. If you still do so be ready for them and accept them.

I could take criticism as a developer, no hassle. I'm just allergic to retards, so it's not my fault I've banned a few of the top ones, it's my sickness.

[NarrowMinded]

I decided to post again so you don't have the last word Wichura
Please post again after me to have it again.

Without joking now, you successfully made me play FOnline2. Your plan worked perfectly, even Kilgore didn't see it coming, good job.

[Perteks]

ahh that ppl are just waiting for Darwin award.

[Wichura]

I decided to post again so you don't have the last word Wichura
Please post again after me to have it again.

Your command is my wish.

Without joking now, you successfully made me play FOnline2. Your plan worked perfectly, even Kilgore didn't see it coming, good job.

Don't tell anyone as it's a secret, but I'm getting paid by both dev teams for all my hard work. FO2 ones pay me for attracting their game, Reloaded ones pay me for helping to get rid off crybabies, demanding cunts and spoiled brats. Shhhh!

[c_hieter]

LOL, good one

[FrankenStone]

[Rinzler]

Bump for dead thread.

[Corosive]

Lol game is fine. Get over all the butt hurt, load up the Reloaded, and come join civilization!