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Topic: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...  (Read 1687 times)

Henry

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PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« on: February 09, 2017, 06:28:27 pm »
"All murders are killings, but not all killings are murders." -many wise men

MMO = An online game where players all over the world can connect simultaneously and work cooperatively in teams to do various things like: beat hard PvE quests together, and maybe team up and fight each other. Of course, such a machine is always fragile. Some player behavior tests the limits. Managing that is quite problematic. FOnline is free, thus it will likely always be understaffed and thus under-managed. This leaves us with a harsher-than-usual environment where bad behavior is mostly unchecked most of the time. So the jackasses here are able to misbehave much more intensely than in other MMOs. The resulting hostile environment is perceived as "harsh", and harsh here is praised. You learn to embrace it or you end up quitting.

PK = The greater majority of players here are Player Killers, those who use the game to express their own real-life hatred or anger issues, by causing as much grief on other players, while otherwise mostly ignoring the game's explorable content. Their intent is not to enjoy the game itself, but to grief others by committing as many in-game murders as they can, and wreck all attempts of others to otherwise play the game and enjoy its content. Their brutality will often seem blind, with total disregard of the injurious effect on the player population. However, this definition will not suit a typical PK. Instead, they might say a PK kills everything, without discretion, because this game is too harsh for talk. Or bullets are the only way to survive player encounters. Or everyone killed me so many times, so now i kill everyone back. (And other attempts to justify bad behavior.) Difficulty: easy, since morality plays little role.

APK = A small minority, the Anti-Player-Killers are those who oppose the PK play-style. Difficulty: Hard; it's always harder to be one of the good-guys.

Both fight. Both kill. Both do PvP. Both do TC. If done properly, an APK's kills are justified, whereas a PK's kills are not.

An Example of the Difference
Two guys meet at a chess club and agree to play each other in a game of chess. They both go get drinks first and find a table. They flip a coin to determine who will go first. They both seem friendly and start to chat a bit as they set up the pieces. They compare chess scores and get some idea of which one of them might probably win. Guy #1 opens with a classic move: King's Pawn to King 4, and then looks up at his opponent. He really hopes this guy is good because he loves chess and practices a lot. He prefers a good tough game, but losing makes him really think about how the defeat happened. He loves chess. Guy #2 looks at the board, and thinks. Obviously he is considering something unconventional. What could it be? Guy #1 is APK, and Guy #2 is PK. This becomes evident when Guy #2 makes his move: he grabs his side of the table and flips it up into the air with loud maniacal laughter. His face contorts as if he is demonically possessed and yells "VICTORY! MUHAHWHAW!" All the pieces go flying. Their drinks crash to the floor and splash everywhere. Guy #1 is sitting there in shock. Other guys at the Chess Club meeting look bewildered. Guy #2 strips down naked and runs out in the street in front of a bus and dies.

More
PvE (Players-vs-Environment). The quest content is a prime example. Finding caves, hunting lockers for blueprints, fighting robots in Glow, navigating the Military Bunker SE (get that implant!) - these are all PvE things.

PvP (Players-vs-Players). Examples include Town Control, Turn-Based Traps, suicide bombers, inter-faction spies/infiltrators, etc.

Common Misconceptions
* PvE players don't like PvP. Wrong: most players like a mix of both.

* APKs are just as bad as PKs since they both kill. Wrong: refer to quote at top. Murder is a killing that is not justifiable. To kill someone invading your home however, is justifiable.

* APKs don't like PvP.  Wrong.

* PKs are like anyone else - they just don't play like you, so you're complaining. Wrong: We're different people with different motivations for being here. Some people are constructive-minded, and some are destructive-minded. Anyone can be both, and most are a mix, but APK lean toward helping people, while PKs lean toward victimizing people, and both have their reasons.

* PKs are totally evil and are never helpful. Wrong: nobody is totally evil, and even most hard-core PKs have helped at least a few people here. They get in helpful moods, are often highly intelligent, charismatic (in real life), friendly when they want to be (just like anyone else), are very creative (look at the awesome animated signature banner images in Khans' posts), and more good things lol.

* APKs are all a bunch of boring, stick-up-their-butts self-righteous losers who think that being good in a game somehow counts in real-life. Partially Wrong: lol. So we're better than you. So what. lol. I hear plenty of tards have decent jobs. (Okay just kidding.) Seriously, who knows why some people default to being good while others default to being evil. My guess is some of you simply lack a proper upbringing, while others were abused. But bottom line is, how you treat others is only your choice.

* Only an APK would write such a post in this forum. Probably True since no PK wants to face the truth that their victimizing play style might actually be a cause in the downfall of FOnline. (Over the years, i have watched players run newps out of the game as fast as they can, and then stand in an empty Hub and ask where is everyone? Insanity and/or stupidity.)

Conclusion
It's a mix. No PK here is totally evil, and sometimes does good things. Meanwhile no APK is totally good. People will surprise you. Sometimes the best things are done by the worst people (or those you think are worst). Sometimes a hero-saint will give up and go to the dark side. But do not think that APK means nothing. APK is the minority, but real and significant. People like to say things like, "well i hate Khans, but game is better with them." Okay then apply that principle to an APK team and it must be even more true, since the imbalance is clearly opposite of the APK population.



Now that we all see this more clearly, let's see how PKs attempt to writhe and wriggle out of it.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 01:39:38 am by Henry »

Crazeddoctor

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2017, 06:45:55 pm »
Never heard of a APK but it seems very similar to a term me and my friends use called "player killer killers" and it seems like the definition is very close... now I gotta decide if I like PKK or APK better... hmm

The Trooper

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2017, 07:46:54 pm »
Kill or be killed  ;)

Heyfray

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2017, 08:27:26 pm »

PrebaTHC

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2017, 09:52:19 pm »
"player killer killers" +1
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Roman_Lumpkin

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2017, 11:53:46 am »
Really withouth PKS and APKS the game wouldnt be fun, its kinda like what it would really be like, people just murdering you on site for no reason or to steal your shit. i think having people be good and evil is what makes the game great. just my opinion

Kelin

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2017, 09:33:03 pm »
I am so glad people stopped using this silly word Anti-PK and now Henry you show up and try to enforce this term to the newcomers. I think your post is wrong on so many levels that I will try to address at least some of the problems I see in your logic.

This leaves us with a harsher-than-usual environment where bad behavior is mostly unchecked most of the time. So the jackasses here are able to misbehave much more intensely than in other MMOs. The resulting hostile environment is perceived as "harsh", and harsh here is praised. You learn to embrace it or you end up quitting.

What kind of bad behavior? Could you describe what bad behavior is? All I see is a game and if someone is following the game's rules then I wouldn't call it a bad behavior. In your chess example you are assuming one of the guys just breaks the rules and considers it a victory. That's not the case with player killers, they don't break any game rules. Like it or not, this is how the game is designed and this is what this game has always been about. What you are talking about is the gamestyle, some enjoy the game this way, some the other way... and that is perfectly fine. If the game offers such variety, be grateful. Don't judge others because they've chosen a different approach.

You claim that player killers are players using the game to express their real-life hatred or anger. Can you support that claim with some evidence? I bet you can't for two main reasons:
a) it is rather hard to get to the real personalities of the players you play with or against
b) getting some real research done would be really time consuming, ain't nobody got time for that!

Also, over the years I noticed players go through several phases (or milestones). Some can skip some of the phases, if they got some external help like a friend or a team. A phase can take from several days to several years, depending on many circumstances. These are the phases:
1. Getting to know the game - You shovel shit and get eaten by scorpions. That's pretty much it.
2. First tent - You are finally able to stash some of your items. You die less often.
3. First fully-leveled character - Now you feel like a boss and think you can own anyone... with your 137 hp crafter.
4. First solid PvP experience - You finally get to kill other players with build that doesn't suck.
5. Average PvP player - You know all the basics + you spent probably more than 1000 hours in Hinkley or in TC
6. Veteran - You can probably calculate all the builds in your head and know most of the advanced game stuff. At this point you need to work really hard to stay entertained because there aren't many new things to attract you.

Each phase is unique and provides a different game experience. If you move to the next phase, it's almost impossible to go back. You changed and the game changed for you as well. As you can see I consider PvP experience as the top game, if you are stuck crafting in your cave it's totally ok, not everyone reaches the top phases (heck, some people don't even get over the first phase).

I'm trying to illustrate how all the players can live together. If you are new and you get killed by an NPC you don't get mad at it (maybe you do, but hopefully you see the point). Newbies just know there are other players seeking them and trying to kill them. It's like an NPC, but smarter (most of the time) and more challenging. They should embrace the reality, not try to suppress it and rely on the so-called anti-PKs. That's how people get better at this game. If they know they can reach that same level of the guy that just killed them then that's comforting.

If you lose a chess game against Garri Kasparov, would you call him a PK and yourself an Anti-PK? Of course not! Because it's stupid. He is just better and if you try really hard you can be just as good or better (or maybe not).

Never heard of a APK but it seems very similar to a term me and my friends use called "player killer killers" and it seems like the definition is very close...
For some reason, this PKK makes more sense than APK. Even though I probably wouldn't use it myself, I do see that you actually can kill a PK, but that does not make you some kind of a holy warrior.

But do not think that APK means nothing.
Well I do think APK means nothing. Sorry to disappoint you.

Before anyone starts labeling me I just wanna say that my gamestyle is completely irrelevant to this topic. I rarely play this game, however, being called "a PK" or "the bad guy" actually flatters me, although it's so hard to get there because I am such a nice person :>

killer1986chris

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2017, 11:28:50 pm »


Wind_Drift

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2017, 10:25:25 pm »
What year is it, 2011?

Kilgore

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 08:37:25 am »
Yeah it's been a while. I'm kinda surprised that someone even talks about APK or being APK anymore. Which is actually a good thing, because everyone has his own reasons why he shoots other players and black-white approach doesn't work here very well.

Invictus

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2017, 06:50:08 am »
 ^ and you are an individual who is incapable of providing valid reasons to his argument. Lets face facts, Anti-Pkers exists just as cops exists in the real world
Where is the ******* G.E.C.K!

Batak

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2017, 03:40:07 pm »
Gentlemen,

I have just one questıon.
Can you imagine a post-apocalyptic world withoout bad guyz?

We can consider PKs as a part of this wasteland and instead of hating them try to better them.

I am very new in this game however I have played MMORPGs all the time. PKs are usually almost the best ın PvP in most of these games. In some of these games I was the hated PK and in some others I was the "holy warrior".
No matter what I have enjoyed what I played.

So let everyone enjoy as they wish instead of labeling them good or bad as long as what they do is with in the game rules.

Regards...

dreff2u

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2017, 10:01:25 pm »
I'm supposedly a PK'er then? Ok..well i disagree with this statement:

* PKs are like anyone else - they just don't play like you, so you're complaining. Wrong: We're different people with different motivations for being here. Some people are constructive-minded, and some are destructive-minded. Anyone can be both, and most are a mix, but APK lean toward helping people, while PKs lean toward victimizing people, and both have their reasons.

I[a PK] AM like everyone else..i love this old game so much i still play it, and ye do, in fact, do a lot of complaining. I love constructing things..quite fond of KSP and FTB, and i only occasionally like to blow shit up.. I'm always on the look out for potential up and coming PK'ers and will always do my best to nourish their skill, and equipment base. The people i like to victimize are apparently APK'ers..i'm guessing your the bunch of whiners that claim some sort of disadvantage you had when i killed you and your buddies solo? or the guys going around in a big group that get salty when another group of pk'ers wipes them out. The "guys with excuses for dying"..

ya see, i got no beef with anyone..i like to play against humans..the best opponents, with good gear, chars, strategies and teams. its a fantastic rush to play against all of you, and every last one of you gives me that rush..geckos..just dont..

if it seems harsh when i spawn in and kill you..remember i really hope you get better and beat me some day, truly. maybe you'll know that moment where you know you fucked up, and its all gonna be over soon..and maybe i will.

either way, i wish you all the best..but dont try and catagorise me..you haven't got a fucking clue what motivates me.

oh, and i despise cheaters..
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 10:04:24 pm by dreff2u »
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Exercise

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2017, 12:54:43 pm »
Quote
I have just one questıon.
Can you imagine a post-apocalyptic world withoout bad guyz?
My sentiments exactly.

Yes a person after getting killed might get mad at first, but It does adds excitement trying to get him back, or someone else :D You really should not get mad in the first place, because the loot is passed on to another player.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 04:05:53 pm by Exercise »

POWERPUFF

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Re: PK and APK: Let's Clear the Air...
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2017, 02:50:20 pm »
nothing's better than to see scattered bluesuit.

Well, yeah, there's one thing better than this.. to see bluesuit go every direction after perfect grenade explosion.
Armageddon Army going for ya