Shouldn't Miniguns/Launchers be weaker at long range?

[Nark]

Removing the ability for the Avenger to be crafted would be good, but it's much too late now because so many are already floating around, this change would just make the people with crafted Avengers stronger while the people without can never get them.

The solution to nerfing the Avenger shouldn't lie in crafted stats either. For starts, it needs to be reverted to 30 round bursts with damage a tick or two above the Minigun, or given walking penalty like the M60 (it certainly deserves it at this point given how hugely damaging it is).

[Smalltime]

I made an avenger build after this buff and I've gotta say.. it's pretty broken. I do 200+ very often on a single burst, follow it up with a second immediate burst for 150, then I run behind cover just as fast as a dude carrying a p90. It is unmatched in damage on the battlefield.   
At the moment, every time I see large scale PvP, it's pretty much just avengers, rocket launchers, and snipers. Gatling lasers are now much less of a threat than avengers, and you can actually craft avengers with mods on them.
As far as rocket launchers go, there is a reason that over half of every single TC team has them.

[Knife_cz]

The solution to nerfing the Avenger shouldn't lie in crafted stats either. For starts, it needs to be reverted to 30 round bursts with damage a tick or two above the Minigun, or given walking penalty like the M60 (it certainly deserves it at this point given how hugely damaging it is).

It's too strong, lets put it back to 30 rounds even when its actually supposed to fire 40 rounds!

[jacky]

No 40 bullets is good but all what they need is just -1 or -2 dmg from single bullet

[Furior]

Also, 5mm AP is OP. -35 damage resistance is crazy.

[Flre]

I made an avenger build after this buff and I've gotta say.. it's pretty broken. I do 200+ very often on a single burst

Omg, what was the target ? Non-toughness sniper? It does 65-80 dmg on GOOD BUILD, go troll more.
If you dont want to die from bursters, make non-jet toughness char, if you want better protection against snipers - bonehead+ man of steel

[Lackey]

I made an avenger build after this buff and I've gotta say.. it's pretty broken. I do 200+ very often on a single burst

Omg, what was the target ? Non-toughness sniper? It does 65-80 dmg on GOOD BUILD, go troll more.
If you dont want to die from bursters, make non-jet toughness char, if you want better protection against snipers - bonehead+ man of steel

I guess you're saying the entire crew of BBS that just got wiped at Mariposa were BAD BUILDS. Before you even start, there was only 1 crafter, the others were PvP escorts as well as backup called in.

[Bluepanda]

Man me and perteks are 10000x more experienced than you and we saw many "balance". I used every possible char from sg, bg up to ew and special builds for only 1 weapon. Better play this game and after some time come back with your idea.

I offered you a chance to refute the argument. Aim for the top not the bottom.

I dont really know whats the point of MRD perk. 2238 devs were stupid adding that, BGers was good enought before that perk. A x3 brd av is unstoppable, and now you have to add bonuses... Btw why is av craftable? Gatling isnt and ppl still use it...

I don't think the perks themselves are flawed, mind you i'm arguing for a damage reduction of the miniguns at range and leaving the damage alone up close. I think they would be fairly balanced even with BRD if they were forced into close range to use them.

I made an avenger build after this buff and I've gotta say.. it's pretty broken. I do 200+ very often on a single burst, follow it up with a second immediate burst for 150, then I run behind cover just as fast as a dude carrying a p90. It is unmatched in damage on the battlefield.   
At the moment, every time I see large scale PvP, it's pretty much just avengers, rocket launchers, and snipers. Gatling lasers are now much less of a threat than avengers, and you can actually craft avengers with mods on them.
As far as rocket launchers go, there is a reason that over half of every single TC team has them.

Same observations here; i don't mind them being a good choice. But they shouldn't be the all-around best choice.

It's too strong, lets put it back to 30 rounds even when its actually supposed to fire 40 rounds!

It doesn't matter what its "Supposed" to fire in other versions of the game. The appropriate amount of bullets to fire in a burst is completely reliant on how bullet mechanics work, how DR works and how much health the enemy players have.

In technical terms, balance.

Also, 5mm AP is OP. -35 damage resistance is crazy.

a 5mm AP change would effect a wide range of weapons. But considering the XL is close behind the minigun, it might not be a terrible idea.

I made an avenger build after this buff and I've gotta say.. it's pretty broken. I do 200+ very often on a single burst

Omg, what was the target ? Non-toughness sniper? It does 65-80 dmg on GOOD BUILD, go troll more.
If you dont want to die from bursters, make non-jet toughness char, if you want better protection against snipers - bonehead+ man of steel

Correction, you've just argued yourself into the circle that brought us to this mess in the first place.

A "Good Build" should not always have toughness, Man of Steel, Boneheaded, ect. What you're thinking of as a "Good" build is the typical big-guns minigun tank in combat armor with tons of health.

Don't get me wrong, i think that the tanky big guns role is a great aspect of the game. But it shouldn't dominate everything besides other tanky big guns players, and it shouldn't be the role the game is balanced around.

[Nark]

I made an avenger build after this buff and I've gotta say.. it's pretty broken. I do 200+ very often on a single burst

Omg, what was the target ? Non-toughness sniper? It does 65-80 dmg on GOOD BUILD, go troll more.

Are you kidding?

I have an Adrenaline Rush, Toughness, Even Tougher, Psycho & Beer 286hp build and I still get 2-shot by Avengers in pristine CA Mk2 from max range.

[Flre]

Correction, you've just argued yourself into the circle that brought us to this mess in the first place.

A "Good Build" should not always have toughness, Man of Steel, Boneheaded, ect. What you're thinking of as a "Good" build is the typical big-guns minigun tank in combat armor with tons of health.

Don't get me wrong, i think that the tanky big guns role is a great aspect of the game. But it shouldn't dominate everything besides other tanky big guns players, and it shouldn't be the role the game is balanced around.

At least i see a paper/scissors/stone system in work here. For example on "other server" BG is completely OP, you have a chance to kill them, only being doublepsychoed with at least 1 toughness. Others classes are just "supports".
For example i have awesome sneaker, which can kill combat characters. But he suck against p90 sg sneakers. What should i do ? Go whine at forum with words "nerf p90, it's  op" ?

Are you kidding?

I have an Adrenaline Rush, Toughness, Even Tougher, Psycho & Beer 286hp build and I still get 2-shot by Avengers in pristine CA Mk2 from max range.

Complete lie. Already did tests, tank with 2x toughness and psycho (without jet ofc) gets 65-80 dmg from range (regular camkii vs regular ave), so go and make some test, or start to wear improved camkii vs improved avengers.

[Bluepanda]

At least i see a paper/scissors/stone system in work here. For example on "other server" BG is completely OP, you have a chance to kill them, only being doublepsychoed with at least 1 toughness. Others classes are just "supports".
For example i have awesome sneaker, which can kill combat characters. But he suck against p90 sg sneakers. What should i do ? Go whine at forum with words "nerf p90, it's  op" ?

Sneaker P90 builds revolve around the burst mechanic. Are you yourself admitting BRD might be too powerful on specific weapons?

[Flre]

Sneaker P90 builds revolve around the burst mechanic. Are you yourself admitting BRD might be too powerful on specific weapons?

You get me wrong. I'm trying to say that if my sneaker is using BG, he will be good against combaat chars, but he will die if will meet p90 sneaker. Stone/paper/scissors. And people ambitions to deal more damage even if they will lack in defence is blinding them, making think that there is no protection agains bursts.

[Smalltime]

Complete lie. Already did tests, tank with 2x toughness and psycho (without jet ofc) gets 65-80 dmg from range (regular camkii vs regular ave), so go and make some test, or start to wear improved camkii vs improved avengers.

This was using a vanilla avenger against a character with toughness, even tougher, Adrenaline rush, psycho, beer, and CA Mk2. (75% DR at max health, at one point he had reached 90% DR because of Adrenaline Rush)


This is against the same character, with


Nark was a bit ahead of himself when he stated that his character could be twoshot by an avenger, though he can still be threeshot. Ignore the Manderly bit, he walked in the way.
The damages around 50 were when his adrenaline rush was capped and he had 90% DR.

[Bluepanda]

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This is a great example of exactly HOW strong avengers really are right now. Ranged they are hands down the best weapon bar non sides rocket launchers.

[jacky]

Most of the time I am against nerfing but FUCKING AVENGER is to strong Kilgore. You cant play 1hex game if you have gatling vs avenger.

most of time gatling deal 220-250 dmg vs ca mk2 and avenger 270-400 vs 2xtoughness ca mk2

yesterday i 1hexed few bbs and at 3rd time when i 1hexed another bbs for 260dmg he shooted me back for 370 (without crit) even if i had +1/5% from adrenline rush. Now tell me Kilgore if fucking avenger can kill tank with single shoot it is balanced or not? Before buff and in 2238 avenger needed most of time 2 1hex burst to kill 286hp 2x toughness tank, snce update av with bonus with 3xbrd can kill everyone except 2xtoughnes/psycho/beer 286hp ca mk2 tank. Gatling at this stage is piece of crap. Nerf av -2dmg from single bullet because it is op. In MY opinnion only vindicator should give you oportunity to kill with single 1hex burst.