FOnline: Reloaded
Development => Suggestions => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Adams on May 21, 2015, 12:54:12 pm
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Super sledge as a top tier close combat weapon is (even after recent boost) very weak and almost unplayable.
All because: 1. low range,if you dont crit you just get onehexed right off,you cant hit and run because the animation takes too long.
2. 95% of all characters have high normal damage resistance
Therefore the Don suggest boosting its range from 2 to 4 and changing damage type from normal to either fire or explosive.
Lets discuss!
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Fire or explosive? ! :o wtf
Just give it a damage boost and maybe 1 more hex range.
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Fire or explosive? ! :o wtf
Just give it a damage boost and maybe 1 more hex range.
3 hexes not long enough for the animation.
Yeah another dmg type becuase guess what you boost normal dmg high enough to do dmg to tanks and it will do instakills against low dr chars. Whats wrong with explosive anyway? What difference does it make? Instead of loosing part of your ribcage you would explode,its called a super sledge after all.
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Whats wrong with explosive anyway?
This game is based on Fallout, not Baldur's Gate.
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4 range?
(http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/21/1432215187-4hex.jpg)
Very ugly
Or you should rename it Hammer of Thor
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Agree,its looking weird but it would do the trick. Imo its better than nothing. Adds variety too,atm nobody is using it.
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Instead of changing weapon there should be something similar to AoP's faster running skill but only for close combat chars/builds/melee weapons or something else. What do you think?
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Look at flamer, the fire doesn't reach its target but people still use it and don't complain it looks ugly :P
Problem with melee is that there aren't really any good perks for the builds + the weapons are weak.
Instead of changing weapon there should be something similar to AoP's faster running skill but only for close combat chars/builds/melee weapons or something else. What do you think?
Do you even fucken play AoP? Only thing that makes you run faster in AoP are jackets, voodoo, blue nuka , and leader module. I'm insulted on bow you got FO2 and AoP mixed up. Also no running bullshit to reloaded please.
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change dmg to electrical! That thing looks like it could shock someone and imagine the awesome electrical death animation after being hit with hammer
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changing damage type from normal to either fire or explosive
(http://www.gifvault.com/img/2014/9/free-thor-gif-1758-17893-hd-wallpapers.jpg)
Super Sledge itself is OP (not speaking of melee builds being not suitable for PvP in general). Just use a proper build for it. It's like if you said Incinerator is lame, because you keep on using it without Pyromaniacs. :/
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Well then mr knowitall why dont you show us how were supposed to play op supersledge with proper build instead of talking nonsense?
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-1000. That wo uk ld WAY overpower it.
Maybe some adjustment (especially since it degrades niw which is really stupid), but 4 he range and fire damage?! Uh... no. Just. No.
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-1000. That wo uk ld WAY overpower it.
Maybe some adjustment (especially since it degrades niw which is really stupid), but 4 he range and fire damage?! Uh... no. Just. No.
What do you suggest then baby boo?
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Super cattle prod is the endgame melee wep, the issue with melee pvp is targeting. Unless things have changed drastically people can run away while you are attacking because they aren't in the hex you initiated attack on. Flamer had similar problems.
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What do you suggest then baby boo?
......... hadn't really thought about it.
Perk: Penatrate and knockback 100%?
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Weapon perk "Penetration", small energy cells as charges.
Possibly animation time between blows also decreased tiny bit.
Swing.
High KD chance, relatively low damage (30-40 to tank), increased critroll on aimed blows.
Thurst.
high damage blow, higher ap cost, chance for cripple, overall critroll decreased, so for critbuild there will be no oneshots.
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Since FOnline 2238 i always fought and made a lot of suggestion to help HtH fighters (it's also the only classes I play).
Many things changed and now with the HtH perks and melee weapon buff things got slighty better, but I must sadly admit that HtH is still not viable for PvP, and that's really bad.
I don't think this is strictly related to weapons damage itself and I don't like the idea to increase range. Personally, I think the problems are others:
1. HtH S.P.E.C.I.A.L. : HtH fighters usually tends to sacrifice PER/CHA/INT in favor of STR/END/AGI and, depends on builds, LCK. No big deal about END or AGI, but I find lack of PER a notable nerf for a fighter. As per my experience, it sacrifice initiative both in TB (for Sequence) and in RT (the enemy usually shoot you before you can spot him).
Suggestion: maybe a solution can be to add a standard perk/support perk that increase FoV with STR and Close Combat (like 8 STR and 200% CC?) as prerequisite . Everyone know that gun fighters will try to get it too, pimping up CC just to get the perk, but it will make lose a good bunch of skill points if they have 1 INT and they are forced to get 8 STR (or 7 + implant) and not every build can afford that.
2. Action points: HtHs should have both high defense and AP, to survive for a longer time than gunner and losing at least 1 turn to get near the enemy. If you get Bonus Move you lose 1 perk and it have no effect in RT. If you make a tanky build, you can't get 2 Action Boy + BHTHA.
Solution: no idea, lol. The only thing I can tell is there are too many perks for HtH and many of them are useless. So maybe they need to be reworked or merged together.
3. Defense: as already said, they also need higher resistance than the stardand fighter, for the simple reason that they get hit MORE. AC build is not viable, since the 140 cap provide almost no benefit in PvP (and an annoying bug in PvE) and require 3 perks to be maxed. In your Face! is easily counterable, every decent gunner VS HtH move 1 hex away before shoot. Toughness build consume a load of perks and you have to sacrifice damage perks.
Solution: Still, no idea. Again new/reworked perks? If I can "steal" an idea from FOnline 2, it would be interesting to see a run speed boost with CC skill.
Sorry for the wall-of-text. Feel free to post a "Didn't read lol" gif. :-[
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increase FoV with STR and Close Combat (like 8 STR and 200% CC?)
Only for high ST builds ? :P
it would be interesting to see a run speed boost with CC skill.
I already feel a river of tears on forum ;D
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(S)mall energy cells as charges.
NOOOOO! -1 MILLION! It's been nerfed enough as is. Just this side of useless......
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2. Action points: HtHs should have both high defense and AP, to survive for a longer time than gunner and losing at least 1 turn to get near the enemy. If you get Bonus Move you lose 1 perk and it have no effect in RT. If you make a tanky build, you can't get 2 Action Boy + BHTHA.
Solution: no idea, lol. The only thing I can tell is there are too many perks for HtH and many of them are useless. So maybe they need to be reworked or merged together.
3. Defense: as already said, they also need higher resistance than the stardand fighter, for the simple reason that they get hit MORE. AC build is not viable, since the 140 cap provide almost no benefit in PvP (and an annoying bug in PvE) and require 3 perks to be maxed. In your Face! is easily counterable, every decent gunner VS HtH move 1 hex away before shoot. Toughness build consume a load of perks and you have to sacrifice damage perks.
Solution: Still, no idea. Again new/reworked perks? If I can "steal" an idea from FOnline 2, it would be interesting to see a run speed boost with CC skill.
Sorry for the wall-of-text. Feel free to post a "Didn't read lol" gif. :-[
Why not go the TLA way and implement the evasion skill? 25% faster move speed and 25% to dodge any attack at 300% skill (like in your face). Apply penalties to wearing specific weapons/armor
Solves the tracking running people issue and gives HtH fighters better defence.
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increase FoV with STR and Close Combat (like 8 STR and 200% CC?)
Only for high ST builds ? :P
It was just an example to prevent gunners from get increased FoV... I'm sure there are better solution
it would be interesting to see a run speed boost with CC skill.
I already feel a river of tears on forum ;D
Well, I want to live enough and see the day when HtH will be considered "overpowered" :D
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Yup i had same issue over the previous sessions and in 2238.. The weapon it self is not the problem here... close combat is the problem in general.. it is handicapped compared to any type of ranged...
The problem is how to manage to get close enough and make your enemy stay close to you. Not to mention to survive the 1hexing.
I already offered tonns of solution for thes problem in the suggestion section. The overall conclusion is not to make melee builds for PVP... and in some cases in PVE it is also unusable... lack of damage, lack of crippling, if you want to survive 2-3 burst from anything capable of bursting... ofc you can do relatively high damage if you make all damage perks + crittchance/roll character, but then you end up with no lifegiver and relative low health and damage resistances in general. Your damage will be enough to almost 2-3 hit sombody with lucky crits but with 170-190 hp you will never reach your target! not even in PA or APA.
The game is based on fallout combat system and there you can play against relatively easy enemys easyer than anything in Fonline.
More survivability for the melee is the solution.
Back to the topic Super sledge would be fun weapon if it would always do random crits if you manage to hit... ofc without aim... it would not make the weapon super dangerous but would make fun sometimes you do a crripling random limbs or eye or KD/KO, bypasses.. so it would not force you to take all the stupid crittperks and make you totaly glass hammer ofc critt damage would roll from your basic crit chance. but yet again you will only get the garanted random critt if you dont aim just swing your hammer like a madman who knows that he will die the next 2-5 sec
"Off"
Now you can start the hate/flame.
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Why not go the TLA way and implement the evasion skill? 25% faster move speed and 25% to dodge any attack at 300% skill (like in your face). Apply penalties to wearing specific weapons/armor
Solves the tracking running people issue and gives HtH fighters better defence.
I do not think this would work that effectively. Considering the lack of a level cap, many other people would be able to work towards having maxed evasion, just as the hth. You would be better off implementing it as a perk that only works when both hands are empty.
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But this evasion will make more usefull light armors. He suggest that heavy armors will lower evasion. So there will be no tanks in heavy armors avoiding bullets.
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No need to overcomplicate things,all it takes to make super sledge usable is what i wrote in the first post,would work and easily doable.
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Making it explosive/electrical dmg and boosting its range to 4 (it looks really crappy) isn'tovercomplicating ? How you want to discuss it if you see only your point ?
Making it explosive I can somehow swallow, electric ? nope.
Boosting range for obvious reason not. Looks ugly and how you want to strike with hammer someone who stand so far ? No just, no...if you want to know my point.
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Making it explosive/electrical dmg and boosting its range to 4 (it looks really crappy) isn'tovercomplicating ? Takes few minutes and can be easily reversed unlike adding some evasion or running speed,correct me if im wrong. How you want to discuss it if you see only your point ? I dont want to discuss off topic shit in SUPER SLEDGE suggestion.
Making it explosive I can somehow swallow, electric ? nope. Electric what?
Boosting range for obvious reason not. Looks ugly and how you want to strike with hammer someone who stand so far ? Easily by changing the range from 2 to 4. No just, no...if you want to know my point. Thanks for your point although it doesnt make much sense.
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Making it explosive/electrical dmg and boosting its range to 4 (it looks really crappy) isn'tovercomplicating ? Takes few minutes and can be easily reversed unlike adding some evasion or running speed,correct me if im wrong. How you want to discuss it if you see only your point ? I dont want to discuss off topic shit in SUPER SLEDGE suggestion.
Making it explosive I can somehow swallow, electric ? nope. Electric what?
Boosting range for obvious reason not. Looks ugly and how you want to strike with hammer someone who stand so far ? Easily by changing the range from 2 to 4. No just, no...if you want to know my point. Thanks for your point although it doesnt make much sense.
1. I will not correct you here cause it's quiet easily as you said. Still need some work and rethink od wider group od players. Evading and shit can be counted to AC so it's not to hard to add it too.
2.We don't disscuss off topic, making something usefull can be done in more than one way. Just saying.
3.Electric damage, I tought it's obvious what can be electrical or explosive...
4. My point make same sense as yours, no need to be harsh. Im just trying to help in this brain storm of raw ideas. Thats why we had such a thing as disscusion...to disscuss and make some things out.
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Its better in this situation to look at melee at a whole. Melee as it is just doesn't work too well. Adding evasion would solve this problem and allow melee to become a viable class again and give more use to other tiers of armor.
Evasion would both speed up the user and give him a chance to dodge. in TLA this is 25% at a 300% value (starting from 100%). However equiping and heavy armor and especially equipping heavy (non melee) weaponry will give drastic penalties to evasion. This way we will never see anyone zooming around with a gatling and CA mk2.
It would perhaps be possible however to see people make use of evasion with a single handed weapon and leather armor. Sneak should disable any evasion effects while active.
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And thats how it would works. Gooseberry +1 from me. The problem isnt in Super Sledge itself. It was buffed little bit lately and doesn't make too much. Reworking such a thing as evasion and evading bullets make sense. To be honest let us to choose from more builds and let us use leather armors and shit with more than first few levels or with sneaker builds. Evasion, sniper rifle and leather armor. Quiet new kind of fun. Same with HtH. Anyway I would not tied it with armor too much, rather with gun weight/seize. Hth tanks would be nice too in PA for example. Not only sneaker hth.
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Its better in this situation to look at melee at a whole. Melee as it is just doesn't work too well. Adding evasion would solve this problem and allow melee to become a viable class again and give more use to other tiers of armor.
Evasion would both speed up the user and give him a chance to dodge. in TLA this is 25% at a 300% value (starting from 100%). However equiping and heavy armor and especially equipping heavy (non melee) weaponry will give drastic penalties to evasion. This way we will never see anyone zooming around with a gatling and CA mk2.
It would perhaps be possible however to see people make use of evasion with a single handed weapon and leather armor. Sneak should disable any evasion effects while active.
Adding evasion wouldnt solve anything. 25% chance to dodge attack in lower tier armors would make you die from pretty much everything in 75% of cases. Running speed would only bring evasion scouts and ninja looter trolls while you evading and running fast still wont be able to kill anyone because every meele weapon is super weak (except heavy handed energo fist).
2.We don't disscuss off topic, making something usefull can be done in more than one way. Just saying. Yes you did,topic says "super sledge" not "evasion".
3.Electric damage, I tought it's obvious what can be electrical or explosive... None mentioned electrical,cant be electrical becuase of tesla helmets.
4. My point make same sense as yours, no need to be harsh. Im just trying to help in this brain storm of raw ideas. Thats why we had such a thing as disscusion...to disscuss and make some things out. Again this is topic about "super sledge" where we disscuss super sledge not brainstorm raw ideas. Try to stick to the topic please if you feel like you have any good ideas not connected to super sledge you can make your own topic for further disscussion.
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I know I can make, but Im sticked to your topic as hell. Super sledge isnt bad, its not problem with this damn weapon. It's problem with hth class. Buffing super sledge doesn't help. Making it 4 hex explosion weapon doesnt make it usefull. It will be OP in one on one pvp fight but useless as fuck in team fights. You gonna get your ass rusted to death before you reach your damn 4hexes.
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Melee sucks bcuz they cannot kite, only viable build is mega power fist with the heavy handed trait, crit build still needs to drop his tankiness for crits, and still those crits are very random, as normal damage it makes almost impossible to kill adr rush 1/4 hp dude.
Making the dmg 1/2 normal 1/2 explosive would do the trick.
Oh and ofc giving some more speed to melee would help also (remember that in CS you run faster with knife!!!)
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As said above by many people, weapon itself isn't the problem.
A burster enter in a PvP/PvE fight and shoot the hell out (also hitting multiple enemies).
A sniper shoot from distance, avoid fight, and take advantage of range and crits (also instadeath).
A melee should:
1) if not adjacent, he have to spot the enemy first, since 90% of times they have 1 PER and horrible FoV, using those points for pump up END, LCK, AGI
2) even if he spot him, he have to reach him. But at this point he usually shoot you x3 and you are already dead.
3) even if you manage to reach him with some kind of miracle, you are not able to 1-shot him almost for sure. Therefore you came in the hex next to a burster for hit him... guess what happens in his turn?
Melee as they are now (as they always were in FOnline?) are not comparable and not competitive as they are in the other Fallout games. Many boost and improvement have been made, but it's still not enough.
We need more durability and/or speed and/or sight.
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As said above by many people, weapon itself isn't the problem.
A burster enter in a PvP/PvE fight and shoot the hell out (also hitting multiple enemies).
A sniper shoot from distance, avoid fight, and take advantage of range and crits (also instadeath).
A melee should:
1) if not adjacent, he have to spot the enemy first, since 90% of times they have 1 PER and horrible FoV, using those points for pump up END, LCK, AGI
2) even if he spot him, he have to reach him. But at this point he usually shoot you x3 and you are already dead.
3) even if you manage to reach him with some kind of miracle, you are not able to 1-shot him almost for sure. Therefore you came in the hex next to a burster for hit him... guess what happens in his turn?
Melee as they are now (as they always were in FOnline?) are not comparable and not competitive as they are in the other Fallout games. Many boost and improvement have been made, but it's still not enough.
We need more durability and/or speed and/or sight.
no no no , why u compare a gun with a knife ? plus ur opinions all based on 1 vs 1 from what i see . vvish made a good post here 2 pages backward ...
a right melee build isnt useless at all in a pvp fight , u can go from behind or from flank but its correct that its close range weapon and that u are screwed on the open but well thats life with a knife , and from what i see outside of hinkley there arent many indoor fights , except some team decide to camp a room .
i agree that melee weapons cud use some buff , maybe adding more and even more crits automatically on super cattle prod and give super sledge some knockout , knockback function ... but that just some ideas , i mean u can use it even now and have fun ... this thread is just typical buff x y gun or spear plox becoz i cant get slaughter fest with it .
just dont take a knife to a gunfight . its simple in reloaded ...