FOnline: Reloaded
Development => Suggestions => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: 3.14 on October 05, 2013, 08:51:29 am
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Overview of pistols:
9mm Mauser
Useless. A weak gun used by NPC to annoy players. It's beyond all hope that this could be somehow useful.
Recommendations: None.
10mm Pistol
A mediocre gun at best. Average range, average damage, average ammo. Still, you have to start somewhere.
Recommendations: None.
.44 Magnum Revolver
Available in two version, unfortunately both suck. The speed loader version at least has a range greater then a shotgun, but the .44 ammo is the real showstopper. .44 JHP has a DR modifier that makes a leather jacket into a bulletproof vest, the FMJ variant would be viable if the gun itself had a bigger base damage. It's a gun for hunting molerats. Even if the ammo would get a boost this gun will still be somewhere between an entry level gun and a pvp pistol, so any effort to make it better is more or less a waste of time.
Recommendations: Ammo buff would make this gun better, but not good enough - do nothing.
Desert Eagle
It's like the .44 revolver, it just trades bigger clip size and range for lower damage.
Recommendations: ->see .44 Magnum Revolver
Needler Pistol
It's a surprisingly good gun, thanks to the NH AP ammo. It says it does 15-30 damage but with the ammo mod it's really 22-45. It lacks in power when fighting armored opponents but it a good choice for hunting aliens, floaters, centaurs and even deathclaws. The list of components needed to craft one of these is way to long. Wood, metal parts, alloys, good metal parts, hg alloys and 5 (sic!) pieces of junk, c'mon, a Jackhammer needs less parts. It also uses 2 ammo types, but one is inferior in every way.
Recommendations:
Give the HN Needler Cartridge 3/2 damage mode, give the HN AP Needler Cartridge a 12/10 damage mode and a DR modifier -20. (low priority)
14mm Pistol
The best gun against armored opponents. That what it says on the package, but in reality it's not - the 223 pistol does (usually) score more damage. It was a viable gun before the 223 got a boost, now it's just the second best.
If it had a damage buff it could do more damage against most armors then a plasma rifle, it would be the choice for pvp, leaving the 223 pistol as a more versatile pistol, but I'd rather see something else. Buff it's range. If it had 36 range it would be a perfect counterargument for minigun and xl-burst tanks without getting in the niche of dedicated sniper rifles.
Recommendations: Boost the range from 24 to 36.
.223 Pistol
Good damage, nice ammo, decent range and at the same time - small clip, big requirements, rare(-ish?) blueprint. It's one of the best balanced guns in FoR. It's only flaw is that it's just to good - the best choice in all situations, the golden gun.
Recommendations: for the love of God, do nothing!
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Needler actually is good right now, it can score pretty high crits + each shot poison.
But i must agree on .44 jhp its practically shit, much to big dr bonus make that ammo useless even versus low critters (comparing to 10mm jhp)
14mm range buff its not bad idea.
Then i will throw mine few caps to it
Alien Blaster
Good damage even if totaly random, its rare weapon but useless in any real fight even in some harder PvE because of absurdal small range and argument to fight this inside rooms is stupid what chance you have vs one hex bursting especially you don't have certainty that you score any good dmg.
Recommendations: Boost range to 30
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Alien blaster 30hexes range? Are you serious? 25is max! This is op weapon
14mm at 36? Why not 52?
14mm is very strong vs tanks and it is perfect weapon for crippler, it is fine like it is
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Alien blaster 30hexes range? Are you serious? 25is max! This is op weapon
14mm at 36? Why not 52?
14mm is very strong vs tanks and it is perfect weapon for crippler, it is fine like it is
I explained why 36. Avenger, XL, Assault Rifle, M60, LSW all have a 35 (burst) range, and since most users of these guns are tanks, then a anti-tank build should exist - the pistol wielding sneaker for preference. 1 hex range advantage gives a strategic bonus and at the same time it is easily countered - RL for big gunners has 40 range, XL, AR has a single shot at 42 hex, and XL 50.
Why not 52? That's the sniper rifle territory, we don't one gun that is the best in all (except xl/rl/av [choose one]), don't we?
Is 14mm strong vs tanks? Compared to what? Avenger? XL70E3? Sniper Rifle? Rocket Luncher?
Compared with 223 pistol - it has lower range and lower base damage, attacking a target with about 50% DR the 14mm does 18-28 while the 223 will do 24-32. Anyway if you are shooting for a cripple then what difference what gun you use? It's not like damage has any effect on crippling chance, make a million 10mm pistols and take that with + crit power, that will be a better gun then a vanilla 14mm.
14mm is a good gun, but with the 223 pistol in the game it's only second best. It's like using a minigun, when you could upgrade it to an avenger.
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I explained why 36. Avenger, XL, Assault Rifle, M60, LSW all have a 35 (burst) range, and since most users of these guns are tanks, then a anti-tank build should exist - the pistol wielding sneaker for preference. 1 hex range advantage gives a strategic bonus and at the same time it is easily countered - RL for big gunners has 40 range, XL, AR has a single shot at 42 hex, and XL 50.
Why not 52? That's the sniper rifle territory, we don't one gun that is the best in all (except xl/rl/av [choose one]), don't we?
Is 14mm strong vs tanks? Compared to what? Avenger? XL70E3? Sniper Rifle? Rocket Luncher?
Compared with 223 pistol - it has lower range and lower base damage, attacking a target with about 50% DR the 14mm does 18-28 while the 223 will do 24-32. Anyway if you are shooting for a cripple then what difference what gun you use? It's not like damage has any effect on crippling chance, make a million 10mm pistols and take that with + crit power, that will be a better gun then a vanilla 14mm.
14mm is a good gun, but with the 223 pistol in the game it's only second best. It's like using a minigun, when you could upgrade it to an avenger.
Anti tank would be better accomplished with perk choices that cater to playstyles that don't benefit current builds wouldn't you think?
Say a perk similar to right between the eyes, that ignored 30-40% of the Target's DR when dealing aimed torso shots.
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Perk changes lead to wipe, so no - I don't think that's the best option at this time.
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With 14mm pistol with ap reduce and brof you can shoot enemy arm with 3ap. With 36hexes of range you will cripple them all before they will reach you and that's why it is very bad idea.
There was a guy from Brazil "Margaux" who loved pistol cripplers and he could kill full tank with fucking Mauser. If you want use pistols in pvp use silent death sneaker.
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Don't panic ;)
A good build will have 55-60% chance to make a critical hit to the arms, a good tank will have ~-25% critical hit chance. So a chance for a critical hit to the arms is about 1 in 3.
You have to roll 71 or more one the critical hit to cripple an arm, and still the victim has a Strength roll to save, a cripple without a save roll is at 91+ rolls. Out of 10 shots 3 can make a crippling strike.
And there's Iron Grip - I have no idea how it works, but I think it helps (maybe someone would use it?).
Weapon drop? Yes, with low strength that's to be expected. Cripple? Only with real world luck.
As I said earlier - 36 range is not outside the reach of any big gunner - just switch to the LR in the second slot, and it's not outside the range of any small gunner - switch from burst to single shot, Gatling and Laser rifle have what 40+ range (to lazy to check), so I don't see a problem here.
As a matter of fact I do have a silent death sneaker, and the only problem I have is weapon choice - I can choose 223 pistol or another 223 pistol. I'm not looking for a gun that would be better then 223, just one that would offer other options.
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Small Guns pistols are fine at the moment, great in the hands of sneakers, good for different things.
Energy Weapons pistols could use a ton of changes though, my god they are terrible.
The Magneto-Laser Pistol, with its 25-40 damage (15 damage spread, consistent) and 35 range.
The Laser Pistol, with its 20-35 damage (15 damage spread, consistent) and 35 range.
The Plasma Pistol/(Ext. Cap) both have 30-45 damage (15 damage spread, consistent) and 20 range.
The Solar Scorcher, with its 20-60 damage (40 damage spread, very inconsistent) and 20 range.
The Pulse Pistol, with its 32-46 damage (only 14 damage spread, most consistent) and 15 range.
The Alien Blaster, with its 30-90 damage (60 damage spread, hugely inconsistent) and 10 range.
Something that should be thought about is making the one-handed energy weapons act as secondaries for all of the main two-hander EWs (Gatling Lasers, Laser Rifle (Ext. Cap)s and Turbo/Plasma Rifles), currently this effect is not achieved due to all of the pistols majorly lacking in places.
As you can see, the ones with the consistent damage (for the most part) and most range are the Laser Pistols. Now take into account that Laser resistance is one of the most commonplace resistances on many different armors and all CA's and Metals perform very well against it unless it's a Gatling Laser dishing out 49-99 per bullet (and even then MA Mk2 hard counters it). Then look at the Magneto-Laser Pistol being a single shot weapon, and the fact that critical bypasses are extremely rare (if not almost impossible) in this game because of MoS/Bonehead/Helmet mods/etc.
This Magneto-Laser Pistol isn't going to be doing shit purely because Laser resistance is so prominent, the Penetrate weapon perk only nerfs enemy DT, it's probably only worth using on a Sneak build with Silent Death/Better Criticals, and even then the .223 Pistol would outperform it in all ways except 5 range due to how resistances and ammo modifiers (.223 compared to SEC) are.
Going down the list, we arrive at the Plasma Pistols, something that could be a viable secondary for a Gatling Laser build, if not for having HALF of the range. There is currently no reason to even bother with something like an EW secondary for when your arm gets crippled in combat or if you need to finish someone off with little AP left, it makes more sense to tag Doctor, take it to 200% and play it like a BG (as if no one-handed alternatives were available at all). 20 range Plasma Pistols either force people to run into the line of fire for 20 hexes from Gatling Laser range to try and take potshots if their arm gets crippled or just run away, and it's not even viable as a self-defense weapon when retreating because it gets outranged by everything in the game.
Then we come to the Pulse Pistol... oh the Pulse Pistol. Now this weapon has huge potential to become a secondary for Gatling Laser builds, if only it had the range. 15 range makes this even more unusable in PvP than the Plasma Pistols. It has the most consistent damage and does ELECTRICAL damage, which can be devastating versus Metal & Metal Armor Mk2, for when the enemy has it to counter your Gatling Laser. The game's damage types and armor types should try to aim for being as rock/paper/scissors as possible and take things like this into account. If the enemy is using Metal, holster the Gatling Laser for a moment and equip the Pulse Pistol secondary to take effective shots at them. Unfortunately with its crippling 15 range it will never see any use in PvP at all.
The Alien Blaster and Solar Scorcher are not useful for anything but PvE grinding currently because of how hugely inconsistent they are, they will never be useful in a real battle, and the range on the Alien Blaster is cripplingly bad and can't even be used on a Silent Death build unless you have hex-perfect positioning 100% of the time vs a 1 PE enemy, while also accounting for random movements that may spot your 300% sneak. I don't what they are intended for in the game, but you (the developers, Kilgore, whoever) can be the judge of that and decide what to do with them, whether or not my suggestions below matter.
A list of suggestions for these weapons?:
Give the Magneto-Laser Pistol back the "Weapon Perk" it had in Fallout 2 (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Magneto-laser_pistol), which was very different than the Penetrate perk we have now. This made the weapon have an automatic -50% Laser DR and -5 Laser DT, not what Penetrate currently does (which is DT/3). You can nerf the damage a small amount to account for this, but not enough that we wind back up where we are now. At least some variant of this old weapon perk that affects Laser DR and not just DT would still be good if -50% is deemed as too much (-30% for example would also be a good number).
Increase the range on the Plasma Pistol to 30, Plasma Pistol (Ext. Cap) to 32 and Pulse Pistol to 32 and we may have a chance of seeing these in use at some point (unrelated to the subject at hand, but Pulse Rifle range should also be increased to 35).
The Alien Blaster and Solar Scorcher absolutely need their damage spread reduced. Maybe make the Alien Blaster do 50-70 damage and increase the range to 25, also make the Solar Scorcher do 40-60 damage and increase its range to 30.
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Needler is awesome, with my doctor build.
With AP needler ammo my crits are like 130-140dmg.
Basic pistols are just useless :D
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With 14mm pistol with ap reduce and brof you can shoot enemy arm with 3ap. With 36hexes of range you will cripple them all before they will reach you and that's why it is very bad idea.
Currently, any build (but melee and flamer builds) kills you before you can reach them. 14mm Pistol is like a melee weapon right now.
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BUMP
.44 Magnum Revolver and Desert Eagle - throw some specified suggestion about ammo change (NUMBERS). I want it more useful but still not even as close as powerful as .223 Pistol. These are mid-tiers guns. For Magnum Revolver, I might add Russian Roulette feature known from Wasteland 2155, but that's by the way.
Laser Pistols should be fine, they are cheap and Laser DR of helmets was lowered recently.
Increase the range on the Plasma Pistol to 30, Plasma Pistol (Ext. Cap) to 32 and Pulse Pistol to 32 and we may have a chance of seeing these in use at some point (unrelated to the subject at hand, but Pulse Rifle range should also be increased to 35).
The Alien Blaster and Solar Scorcher absolutely need their damage spread reduced. Maybe make the Alien Blaster do 50-70 damage and increase the range to 25, also make the Solar Scorcher do 40-60 damage and increase its range to 30.
This *should* be fine, I'll try it.
Also, Plasma DR/DT on helmets will be decreased in the next update in a similar way as Laser DR/DT recently.
Any other ideas?
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.44 JHP 2/1 DM +20% DR, .44 FMJ 1/1 DM -20% DR.
Try that.
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.44 Magnum Revolver
- Increase damage from 16-22 to 18-24
- Range from 15 -> 20 (then we don't think anymore how speed loader give +5 more range)
- Roulette sounds fun :)
Desert Eagle
- Increase damage from 12-18 to 14-20/16-22
.44 JHP
3/1 -> 2/1
DR mod 50% -> 25%
.44 FMJ
Should stay as it is.
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.44 would have to be this strong for me to use it:
.44 JHP:
+20DR
3/1
What about 14mm? It's not bad but 223 is just better in every way...maybe exept fighting a psycho-tank,but killing one of them with any pistol is pure luck anyway.
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It might be a good idea to bring weapon damage of all weapons closer together
so most weapons become more or less viable. Basically you'd have to rework most weapons to get balanced advantages and drawbacks.
Pistols should have the same damage as rifles. Their big drawback is their range.
I'd give the Mauser a higher range and the 223 pistol a slightly shorter one.
The Magnum should have higher damage (come on, it only has 6 shots).
You could move most better weapons to gunsmith 1 and instead introduce zip guns and pipe rifles with higher damage than the BB gun and the pipe rifle with longer range (around 30?).
They should require very little to be crafted.
Big gun ammo should be harder to craft, but I would make more of them available by crafting.
Rocket launcher should be available without blueprint, but rockets need to be harder to craft.
Energy weapons should be harder to craft and maintain (wear off faster) and unavailable from the start (yes, not even the laser pistol).
Would love to see more melee weapons too and you could encourage people skilling throwing by having rocks lying around on desert maps.
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There is no need to boost low-tier weapons.
"Harder craft" - no, 2238 tried walking this path (remember crafting rockets one-by-one?) and this didn't work. It was a pain in the ass for solo players while gangs had plenty of everything.
By the way what about I make Solar Scorcher deal fire damage?
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I'd love to see Magneto-Laser Pistol a bit buffed, 42 range for example? 30-45 damage instead of 25-40?
I'd really like to see this gun around more.
I mean hey, its a laz0r, accurate on long-range right?
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42 range on a pistol (and not gauss)... you crazy? Laser pistols are low-tier...
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A list of suggestions for these weapons?:
Give the Magneto-Laser Pistol back the "Weapon Perk" it had in Fallout 2 (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Magneto-laser_pistol), which was very different than the Penetrate perk we have now. This made the weapon have an automatic -50% Laser DR and -5 Laser DT, not what Penetrate currently does (which is DT/3). You can nerf the damage a small amount to account for this, but not enough that we wind back up where we are now. At least some variant of this old weapon perk that affects Laser DR and not just DT would still be good if -50% is deemed as too much (-30% for example would also be a good number).
Then do this!
Hell .223 pistol is also easily obtainable, is craftable and does a nice damage. I want some Pistol-EW-like-craftable gun too, that could be somewhat compared to .223 pistol.
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There is no need to boost low-tier weapons.
"Harder craft" - no, 2238 tried walking this path (remember crafting rockets one-by-one?) and this didn't work. It was a pain in the ass for solo players while gangs had plenty of everything.
By the way what about I make Solar Scorcher deal fire damage?
Fire would deal more dmg the laser to players, but the question is: Would it work with pyromaniac?
I'd also like to know Your opinion on boosting the range of the 14mm pistol to over 30?