Solar scroachers

[Beer]

Erm, no...I wasnt complaining or whining, I just wanted to point what  dark angel wanted to say. I didnt use implants yet, so I don't give a single you know what. Im not using solars, and I met some builds of that kind and still see no point to nerf it. You will nerf flamers too with this. I just think some guys would buff only burst and tank builds, thats my opinion...You don't have to agree, but theres no need to be so angry.

Edit: Im on no to changing something in harder way, nomatter which build it will gonna change, peace pal

No I didn't mean you. Dark angel in lsw thread said not to buff single shot or make game changes because then people with an implant can't reroll to adjust. Now he makes thread to nerf build and gun he doesn't use leaving anyone with such a build(maybe implanted) no choice except to reroll. See the hypocrisy? I am against this change as well. Solar is not something widely used so don't take what little relevance it has out of the game. And like you say matt some people like to nerf everything except bursters.

[Mad Matt]

Yup, sorry...I tought it was send to me. Anyway, it should be left as it is now or changed on both side. Now lets wait and see what he gonna say, maybe he can explain it...

[Dank Anel]

Erm, no...I wasnt complaining or whining, I just wanted to point what  dark angel wanted to say. I didnt use implants yet, so I don't give a single you know what. Im not using solars, and I met some builds of that kind and still see no point to nerf it. You will nerf flamers too with this. I just think some guys would buff only burst and tank builds, thats my opinion...You don't have to agree, but theres no need to be so angry.

Edit: Im on no to changing something in harder way, nomatter which build it will gonna change, peace pal

No I didn't mean you. Dark angel in lsw thread said not to buff single shot or make game changes because then people with an implant can't reroll to adjust. Now he makes thread to nerf build and gun he doesn't use leaving anyone with such a build(maybe implanted) no choice except to reroll. See the hypocrisy? I am against this change as well. Solar is not something widely used so don't take what little relevance it has out of the game. And like you say matt some people like to nerf everything except bursters.

we are enemy, but your level of faggoty is too high 
Can't belive that u are comparing changes with LSW to nerf of solar.
I said my opinion and i wanted to read what others have to said, that's all.

[Kaaon]

solar scorcher is most overpowered weapon for TB, thats true.. 2x pyro + fastshot gives 45 flat dmg.. its average dmg vs camk2 is .. 30-45 dmg = 37,5 average - 4 fire dt = 33,5 * 0,7 fire dr = 23,45 + 45 flat dmg = 68,45 avg dmg vs CAmk2 (not 80 as you said, darkangel)
since it has 6 ammo capacity and 2 ap cost with brof and fastshot for 12 ap you can do 68,45 dmg * 6 shot = 410 dmg / turn - a bit different maybe because idk how are numbers rounding, if target has AR then its a bit less but still in TB there is aboslutely no way to survive against solar scorcher
on the other side.. its just TB, this game cant be balanced for both combats properly while solar scorcher is not really common weapon and requires special build but since its not used in RT combat, it could be adjusted somehow
and about RT.. as ppl said, its flat dmg is not multiplied by crits and with fastshot its not a big deal since 68 dmg / shot in RT with only 32 range isnt really that good because its nearly impossible to do 6 shots in a row with that low range in RT combat and survive

[Dank Anel]

solar scorcher is most overpowered weapon for TB, thats true.. 2x pyro + fastshot gives 45 flat dmg.. its average dmg vs camk2 is .. 30-45 dmg = 37,5 average - 4 fire dt = 33,5 * 0,7 fire dr = 23,45 + 45 flat dmg = 68,45 avg dmg vs CAmk2 (not 80 as you said, darkangel)
since it has 6 ammo capacity and 2 ap cost with brof and fastshot for 12 ap you can do 68,45 dmg * 6 shot = 410 dmg / turn - a bit different maybe because idk how are numbers rounding, if target has AR then its a bit less but still in TB there is aboslutely no way to survive against solar scorcher
on the other side.. its just TB, this game cant be balanced for both combats properly while solar scorcher is not really common weapon and requires special build but since its not used in RT combat, it could be adjusted somehow
and about RT.. as ppl said, its flat dmg is not multiplied by crits and with fastshot its not a big deal since 68 dmg / shot in RT with only 32 range isnt really that good because its nearly impossible to do 6 shots in a row with that low range in RT combat and survive

Did u test it? As i remember in TB it does more than 68 hit points for 2AP on CA.
I used it on RT trap in flare and before someone could react i just could shoot him 3-5 times for 70-80dmg every shot.

[Beer]

So that's all you have for your reasoning dark angel? Flame and ad hominem? But yes seki is correct it is op in tb but only if it goes first and is in close range. Taking perks to make such build will make it very weak to any normal damage. In realtime there is not much use for it either. Only some aimshot pyro build that is almost never used.

[Kaaon]

Taking perks to make such build will make it very weak to any normal damage.

not really, it requires only brof and 2x pyromaniac... no crits, no actionboys, no brd

[Blarney]

solar scorcher is most overpowered weapon for TB, thats true..
on the other side.. its just TB, this game cant be balanced for both combats properly

in RT with only 32 range isnt really that good because its nearly impossible to do 6 shots in a row with that low range in RT combat and survive

Agreed to these points, basically what I was saying earlier

My other point would be that this is hardly the only "broken" thing about turn based PvP here.

[Gooseberry]

No it's fine. Yes it is a deadly weapon when used by a specialized TB build with the pyro perks while in TB. Which is exactly the thing, it is only good under specific circumstances. And do I need to mention that it's an uncraftable weapon?
A good well crafted laser/plasma/lsw is going to give you trouble too. And while the sorcher does have the most damage, all other weapons have more range.

[Blarney]

And do I need to mention that it's an uncraftable weapon?

Yes and I'm glad you did because I forgot to lol.

[Dank Anel]

So that's all you have for your reasoning dark angel? Flame and ad hominem? But yes seki is correct it is op in tb but only if it goes first and is in close range. Taking perks to make such build will make it very weak to any normal damage. In realtime there is not much use for it either. Only some aimshot pyro build that is almost never used.

And what u put in this topic? As I said before i gave SUGGESTION, and that's all.
In TB it piss me off, with good corner in encouter it can clean up encouter.

[Kaaon]

Somehow i havent seen any of those anywhere besides that you cant reload during night if im not mistaken.

there arent much solar scorcher TB builds because :
- such build can use only solar scorcher
- such build is good only for TB PvP
- solar scorcher cant be loaded during night - that can cause problem in TB since they take alot of time but it still can kill 1-2 ppl with 6 bullets in its "magazine"
- solar scorcher isnt much common, most of ppl hate caves and its not craftable
- many ppl dont know about it

however it doesnt changes fact about how OP are solar scorchers in TB
same thing as pyromaniac with fire pancor ammo in previous season, there wasnt much ppl (if even someone except me ?) with pyromaniac using pancor and it was nerfed because it was uninteded
so i wonder if its not same for solar scorcher.. dependns on how is pyromaniac supposed to work .. should it work only with flamers and it was forgotten when solar scorcher dmg type was changed to fire or not..

[Blarney]

Continued to agree with Seki.

I have personal stake as I am running the eyecrit solar sneaker build, and don't want to see that nerfed as I can argue the balance for hours (for example compare my current build to someone pairing an alien blaster with an upgraded 223 pistol and you have just as deadly results, if not more so, with 2 extra perks to play with).

That being said, if it is an unintended glitch or whatnot and it is "fixed" I will learn to play without easily enough, but it just seems that it is diminishing options for my build type specifically to the point where there is only one real choice, which is quite boring

In regards to TB I think we all agree scorcher is not supposed to have that kind of damage output for AP cost, it is clearly too high when combined with a build catered specifically to it, and creates some kind of meta singularity and breaks the game, which is unfortunate.

[Beer]

Continued to agree with Seki.

I have personal stake as I am running the eyecrit solar sneaker build, and don't want to see that nerfed as I can argue the balance for hours (for example compare my current build to someone pairing an alien blaster with an upgraded 223 pistol and you have just as deadly results, if not more so, with 2 extra perks to play with).

That being said, if it is an unintended glitch or whatnot and it is "fixed" I will learn to play without easily enough, but it just seems that it is diminishing options for my build type specifically to the point where there is only one real choice, which is quite boring

In regards to TB I think we all agree scorcher is not supposed to have that kind of damage output for AP cost, it is clearly too high when combined with a build catered specifically to it, and creates some kind of meta singularity and breaks the game, which is unfortunate.

I agree with all but the last point. Scrorcher is very good in tb. But people forget it has only 32 range and any op solar build will have very low Dr. So it is maybe king up close but it will be destroyed at range or in any area without good cover. If someone has xl or sniper that is up to 52 range. A full 20 hexes more and on top of that shooting at a very soft target. Even with  rocket launcher laser rifle or Gatling laser you can outrange solar and do great damage. On top of this solar has 2 other big drawbacks. Not reloadable for half the game and also only obtainable from caves. This is not the same as last session where 1ap shots ruled tb and if you went into tb encounter you were screwed. Solar has some easily definable weaknesses and it has one area that it is good (close range daytime tb with first shots) I think this is appropriate for a rare weapon.

[Blarney]

Well turn based is all about the meta weapons and builds, so perhaps scorcher just fills a reasonably big role in the meta game then. To me it seemed incredibly strong, but then again to me 1hexing is pretty ridiculous too in terms of guaranteed damage for cost.

It would be sad to see every TB player move to a build that can wield a scorcher but to be fair that does tend to be the case with other weapons (fastshot LSW etc), once people realise that it is the optimal weapon they use it, meta mechanics 101