Merge Speech and BArter into Negotiation skill.

[Desert Mutt]

Melee and Unarmed have been merged into close combat.
I propose to do the same with two other semi-useful skills: Speech and Barter.
This will actually make tagging this skill somehow useful for certain types of characters.

[Kilgore]

I see no reason to do that, completely different skills.

[Dr.Mentat]

I dont know...to barter one must convince the other person that their item is worth more than is being offered etc.etc. This is often times accomplished through being an excellent speaker. Take, for instance, a car salesman (to use a RL example.) If the salesman is stuttery and says "um" a lot, he'll never be as convincing as the slick, silver-tongued jerk who actually gets you to buy a Hummer, when all you really wanted was to look at prices on a Celica.

And yes, i know its weird to use RL in a fantasy world where we magically make guns without the aid of lathes and acetylene torches...i'm just saying the 2 are closer in relation than melee and unarmed because swinging a heavy object is not really the same as punching something.

[Heartquake]

Let's do 3 skills in the game: combat skill, medicine skill, support skill... officially you don't have to tag anything, everything is automatically distributed during game so the simple, casual minded player doesn't have to think. Now that we covered that, let's move to s.p.e.c.i.a.l points. There will be 3 of them: stamina, intellect, dexterity, obviously you can't raise them, but only in game items give them in game that only takes just about forever to get, to make sure the player has next to no choices and he can't possibly do wrong...

That is to what all the suggestions to merge something lead to when players over-exaggerate with the convenience of combining something.

[Dr.Mentat]

That is to what all the suggestions to merge something lead to when players over-exaggerate with the convenience of combining something.

<Speech Skill-check roll initiated. Heartquake rolls a 2.
Speech Skill-check roll not successful. >
Result: I'm not buying this is a valid argument!

[Desert Mutt]

The reasons why I suggested Barter and Speech to be merged are:
1. Things described by Dr.Mentat's post
2. Speech skill is more or less useless on it's own.
3. Less special purpose alts,  we are killing specialized barter alt by this change as you will be able to create a Leader (tag: some weapons, Negotiation, Outdoorsman) type character (a viable play style) that is good at bartering.
 

[Heartquake]

Alright, alright, I was just kidding. There will be only 1 skill called magic.

If you don't get the idea, then you just simply don't get the idea...

1. Things described by Dr.Mentat's post

Yeah, his argument is reality... very convincing to apply to a game when both skills have completely different mechanics tied to them, unlike it was for unarmed/melee.

2. Speech skill is more or less useless on it's own.

Melee, unarmed were merged because both were very similar. Speech is not useless on it's own, neither it is similar to barter.

we are killing specialized barter alt

What the fuck is that, you making alt for 125 skill cap?

All support skills were lowered just to make it possible to make overall more useful characters and... it works. No idea where you going with this.

[Desert Mutt]

If you don't get the idea, then you just simply don't get the idea...

That's a solid logic here. Could you please elaborate on this?

What the fuck is that, you making alt for 125 skill cap?

Yes, but it is not necessary that I'm going to tag barter and level teh alt til lvl 24...

All support skills were lowered just to make it possible to make overall more useful characters and... it works.

It seems that some skills were just capped without reworking underlying mechanics (e.g. you still need 300% make it useful, but you can't raise it higher than let's say 125% due to the cap, at least that's the feeling I got with science skill).

[paco]

Talking someone into buying snake oil is not the same as making them pay twice as much for it.

[Desert Mutt]

Talking someone into buying snake oil is not the same as making them pay twice as much for it.

You admit that both are talking.
Same can be applied to melee & unarmed: fighting with knife or a spear is not the same as dropping kicks and punches, but we have those merged.