In this thread I will explain why pve and pvp mixed is bad in fonlines and suggest some changes to the common settings.
Oh, it's
that thread again.
When there is a risk that hostile players might spawn in your encounter when you're already fighting npcs it may encourage (according to some) interesting situations. But truthfully these situations are just bad gameplay that kills activity. If you can meet and kill players who do pve, it may increase player interaction but it KILLS the whole activity of pve. To make you understand here's an example of the illusion of player interaction: you might say that if there was a chance that players could find each other's bases on wm it'd increase player interaction but at the same time it kills the whole idea of bases.
This is a false analogy:
- you don't earn stuff from your base, you do earn stuff from farming.
- you can't play without a base or a tent, you can play without farming.
Now, what happens when a farmer is killed? Some stuff that was gathered farming is lost. The activity isn't "killed," it's just that the winner of the encounter gains a small bonus, while the loser has to waste some time to return to farming. Basically, random PvP while farming decreases the efficiency of farming for bad players and increases the efficiency of farming for good players. Making boring stuff skill-based? Yes please.
Now, it would be possible that the decrease in efficiency would kill the activity if the farmed resources were scarce and the player would actually start losing stuff. However, if you knew anything about farming pre-BH caravan nerf, you'd know that is not the case when the encounters are unlimited and you gain farming fuel from farming. Basically, there's no way to make it inefficient for a dude using farmed miniguns and ammo to farm more miniguns and ammo by killing him over and over again. You'd have to skip on your farming and be lucky enough to catch him on every encounter. And even if you catch him 3 times, if he kills an enco the 4th time he breaks even. That's why farming those caravans was so popular back in 2009 - it was economically viable even when there were about 10 people running around on a single square.
Also, forget gank squads killing farmers, it's so inefficient it's not even funny. First of all, gank squads can't farm efficiently and do less encounters. Secondly, the same viability thing applies from the farmer's perspective, as he simply does not give a fuck whether he was killed by one guy or four. That's why back when farming caravans was the thing and there were no encounter limits or other silly stuff, most PvP action on farming squares was farmer-on-farmer violence. Actually, plenty of people preferred not to shoot at one another in order not to risk losing a few minutes needed to come back to your farming tent and kill one caravan to break even.
If you make pve, you can't mix pvp into it because in encounters and dungeons pvp and pve are wastly different in terms of strategy. In pve you go against the npcs over and over recklessly. In pvp you camp, wait, scout and make brief offensive moves. In pvp you spend materials and have vague chance to get them in return, in pve you likely gain them at steady rate. Lastly, it's extremely stupid idea strategically to choose to fight npc and players at the same time.
The thing is you don't choose to fight npc and players at the same time, the cool thing about open dungeons is that fighting is spontaneous and risky. Besides, it's not like we can't have open dungeons and closed dungeons, unlike the old 2238, Reloaded isn't a "no fun allowed" kind of game.
If you lay a trap or seek your enemy from encounter, you aren't farming anymore, you don't get profits, you are wasting your time and there's a chance that you don't even find anyone. And even if you do manage to kill the guy who's harassing you, what guarantees you got he doesn't come back or come back with friends? Basically those who hunt down pve players ruin the whole activity in the area. Can't blame them because farmers are easy targets, so let's say that allowing this to happen ruins the activity.
Already addressed that, you're falsely assuming that farming requires more effort than ganking farmers.
So I suggest that where ever there are hostile npcs, there must not be chance that uninvited players appear. If there is a pve dungeon, then other players must not be allowed to enter that instance without some kind of invitation. If there are encounters with hostile npc, then players must be given a choice if they want other players in because maybe someone enjoys fighting npc and players at the same time.
That promotes autistic, single-player play. I'm fine about having hard dungeons that can be entered by only one group at a time (tanker style, but repeatable and harder), but allowing lone players to do that would be a threat to player interaction on the worldmap.
You might think that all players will disappear in these safe farming grounds. Might be, but it's better than forcing players in situations they didn't sign up for. Forcing everyone to face pvp in unfair settings simply encourages avoidance. If someone wants pvp, then maybe he should stop looking easy targets and find actual pvp-oriented targets from pvp locations.
There's a game for fair PvP and it's called Fallout Tactics - a squad based tactical game. Fallout Online is a mmorpg and is all about social interactions. You can't have meaningful social interactions without allowing some people to act like assholes towards other people. Besides, if you go to a farming ground in Reloaded, you know what you sign for - you WILL meet other farmers, you WILL kill some of them, you WILL be killed by some of them. Occasionally, you might be killed by a gank squad. But as long as you don't start acting stupid and running around with the haul from 5 encounters or more, you ARE going to profit in the long run, which means that the activity will be far from dead.
In fact, the opposite to what you said will happen - the farming hot spots will be brimming with life, as they will attract not only people wanting to farm (nessies, pvpers who need ammo, dedicated pve-ers, hell maybe even traders who got bored with crafting), but also people wanting to confront other people while farming. More traffic, more interactions, more ambushes, more fun.
I guess you simply forgot how great this feature was before the old devs nerfed it into oblivion. Or you simply didn't have a chance to experience it.
Topic: Pvp and pve mixed doesn't work (Read 8865 times)