FOnline: Reloaded
Development => Suggestions => Topic started by: Johnny on September 27, 2017, 09:19:00 am
-
Alright so I think I saw enough of this to post something:
ABOUT CONDITION
Alright so before item conditon wasnt applying when we had 300 gun skill. Obviously this was a bug, glad it was fixed.
But now the items are degrading wayyyy too fast.
Since you made oil cans nearly impossible to get now, i suggest you halve item degradation and item condition penalty on death.
ABOUT NEW BULLET REPARTITION SYSTEM
Ok so i've checked mojuk's formula and i didnt understand anything cause my maths skill level is 5%.
But I get it that the main idea is to nerf one hexing and make the game more Nweeb friendly.
I think that however you removed a feature that was very important for many players (including me) who like to solo dungeons wich is now impossible.
I'm sure that a compromise is possible here: I suspect the damage formula is the same at 1 or 2 hexes? I suggest to change this so one hex is still a feature but that the damage doesnt violently increase like in 1st session but that it still does considerably more damage from 1 Hex that from 2.
There is no reason why people with 500 ping or people using hexbot or some other dork program justify penalizing all the players.
ABOUT LEVELING
Ok so we all agree that private mines rendered leveling very easy in session 1. I also have heard that in session 2 the caravan was giving exp increasing with your level.
Now i get it you dont want to see easy leveling.
Just acknowledge one thing is that people will always find what's the most efficient way to level and they'll repeat it to get the level they need.
Why making something everyone had to go through a pain in the ass?
Please: Bring back the caravans improving exp depending on level.
Don't make private mines visible to all, they are utterly useless now and you already added junk to every recipe so crafting is already nerfed no need to render it useless and grindy as fuck.
Alright so there is a difference between nerfing a feature and render it completly useless.
Surely we can find some middle ground here because overall you seem to get the main issues right but the solution are fucking radical.
I mean you literally go to white from black. I'm asking for some grey here.
-
I disagree..
- 300% skill condition thing was fixed in 2nd season already and i dont feel like items deteriorate too fast, they last for quite long if you repair them with super tool kit
- its a multiplayer game, who said that you have to solo dungeons ? I like it way it is now, it encourges players to play together and for solo players there is alot other content
- i always felt like leveling through crafting and caravans was too fast in s1 and s2, it didnt took long time to reach a point when you didnt even know where to even put skill points because you already had all skills which you needed and then you lose motivation to level up
Everyone wants to level up faster and faster but sometime you have to think about what is better for game, not what you want.
Nerfing private mines does not affect new players and old players will find other way to level up, just look at vtdb leaderboards. I didnt play much this season (yet) and i made it to level 87 with only around 25 hours of playtime. If you time your telltales cooldown properly, you can make crazy exp.
-
You know telltales were ninja nerfed? Now centaurs and floaters still number uno for exp
Onehex won't gonna be back because of how exploited it was, deal with it.
-
hmm one hex only in pve ? should be no problem to implement different dmg calculations between pve and pvp (depends on targets crittertype?)
-
i can certainly see why implementing some sort of XP scaling would be fair, maybe not level to level, purely because the higher level you are the less content there is thats worth doing honestly. It was certainly boring that all everyone did was caravans in season 2 i completely understand the nerf, but as i said it quickly becomes pointless to do them at all, even in end game dungeons like ares there is little incentive to go there as of now given the number of people it requires compared to the xp and loot rewards.
as far as hexing goes, i completely understand why it was removed as being one shot in pvp is pretty annoying and removes a lot of the strategy out of the game, this i dont mind being removed personally im not really sure how this could be changed and remain balanced in such a way that prevents people from using this tactic only. I suppose having a damage modifier to players rather than npcs would make sense based on distance assuming thats simple implementation.
As far as dropping items in pvp goes, me and my friends have talked about it pretty extensively, and it seems to me a fair way to do this would be perhaps dropping a certain percentage of whatever you are holding on death much like how it functions with NPCs. Drop 20% of your loot (for example) upon death instead of everything, randomly picked from your inventory thus giving that sense of danger from traveling to dangerous areas and a reason to fight each other, without necessarily losing everything you have as a rookie against a 10 man squad. Seems like a fair balance that cant be easily exploited for personal gain.
-
What if you have one thing with you? How you will loose 20% of that gun, armor or toolkit? :D
-
What if you have one thing with you? How you will loose 20% of that gun, armor or toolkit? :D
20% chance to lose said item? I think a basic 20% roll on every piece of gear dropping would be simpler though. So a good roll for someone with let's say 20 items might drop nothing and bad rolls could drop most of their stuff.
-
ABOUT LEVELING
Ok so we all agree that private mines rendered leveling very easy in session 1. I also have heard that in session 2 the caravan was giving exp increasing with your level.
Now i get it you dont want to see easy leveling.
Just acknowledge one thing is that people will always find what's the most efficient way to level and they'll repeat it to get the level they need.
Why making something everyone had to go through a pain in the ass?
Please: Bring back the caravans improving exp depending on level.
Don't make private mines visible to all, they are utterly useless now and you already added junk to every recipe so crafting is already nerfed no need to render it useless and grindy as fuck.
Alright so there is a difference between nerfing a feature and render it completly useless.
Surely we can find some middle ground here because overall you seem to get the main issues right but the solution are fucking radical.
I mean you literally go to white from black. I'm asking for some grey here.
I could say I agree with some of this.
Game got nerfed to a point where the only way to get levels is either crafting or using farms. I was happy to see that even though caravans were nerfed, we had telltales as a PvE way of leveling, since I hate crafting and almost always go for a barter character to get my own sets of armor, guns and ammo. Desert critters are still a thing for grinding exp, but those don't give caps or anything worth selling (making my barter skill useless) making it harder for non crafters to get more gear to keep up with the leveling.
Now I'm not saying it's impossible to get levels killing NPCs now, but at higher levels it'll take a long time and a lot of extra work to keep up, and most of us can't spare enough time to do all this and at the same time enjoy the game, because after all it's just a game, it's meant to be fun, and no matter how much you nerf the exp grinding, like Johnny said, people will always look for the best way of grinding it.
That said, I can speak for myself and for my friends when I say that once you played this game for a long time the only thing we look for is getting levels, implants and other things like Power Armors. And having fun with the rest of the community of course. :)
I do like what the devs want to do with t4 though, that should allow everyone to get t4 items and not just a few factions/experienced players. And there's also been a lot of other good things...
I hope we can get a session where all the playstyles get the same rewards, that's all. Cheers.
-
Thx to the guys who post wall of constructive feedback! You guys should be astronauts. Keep the posts coming make your voice count, Fuck the grind.
-
#FuckTheGrind
-
What if you have one thing with you? How you will loose 20% of that gun, armor or toolkit? :D
20% chance to lose said item? I think a basic 20% roll on every piece of gear dropping would be simpler though. So a good roll for someone with let's say 20 items might drop nothing and bad rolls could drop most of their stuff.
Now it has more sense, thx.
-
PVE death and usage deterioration is good imo. I never run out of stuff basically, even with LK 1, having weapons blow up in my face sometimes. Note: I use Fast Shot spammer, that I believe is more cost efficient than most builds, at least on amo and weap deterioration.
Leveling to 30 is not that hard nor slow, unless you gimp yourself in every way possible, like Jinx, only melee, etc. Don't know about further, but you can have a decent character by 30 that can both craft and fight. What's the aim here, level 150 in 3 weeks after wipe? If you chose a 1 IN build, well, live with the strain, your choice.
Bullet repartition is strange, sometimes I miss target and hit another one instead, like 45 degrees to the right or left of original target.
+ Gun runners Mutie quest is too OP in rewards/loot, do that every day, it's quite fast, and your wealth is ensured.
-
Mutie quest op? wut its only worth time doing quest right now
-
Mutie quest op? wut its only worth time doing quest right now
Mutie quest is OP in rewards compared to other quest, but a nerf should not necessarily include rewards/loot nerf. It could be nerfed in the way it works and that would be an actual enhancement for PVE.
As I mentioned before, with full loot gone, PVE should be at least harsher now. The only way you can fail the mutie quest is loosing the package, which is almost impossible.
I suggest the following:
- Have the quest fail if you die, loosing all the stuff you invested, car/items you had on yourself as the location gets deleted.
- If you fail quest, you receive 3 days CD instead of 1 on success, and loose reputation with GR.
- Have a timer for quest, where you only get the option to choose the rewards if you finish in less than 30 minutes.
As you see all if these are nerf, but not the type where doing or trying to do the quest is not worth it.
-
2238 Stockholm syndrome
I think that's what you have, Slowhand.
I have a better idea. Instead of nerfing more quests, buff the quests you nerfed to shit already.
Thank you for your consideration.
-
the mutants exp and item condition already got ninja nerfed a few weeks ago so leave my mutton quest alone
-
2238 Stockholm syndrome
I think that's what you have, Slowhand.
I have a better idea. Instead of nerfing more quests, buff the quests you nerfed to shit already.
Thank you for your consideration.
what is that syndrome and why do you think it's related to me?
-
Read Nice_Boat's post that I quoted, you will understand.
-
Read Nice_Boat's post that I quoted, you will understand.
Did, nothing explanatory there. OP and you use the phrase to express your frustration, nothing that would give valuable feedback, at least, not to me.
I play and level casually and got no problem with it at all. Know I do not, but reading this forum I think the vets complain most, since they are spoiled having hundreds of level on each of their characters and using only the best equipment.
If you read carefully, the nerf I suggested adds more spice than actual material or XP nerf to that particular quest, or any other where failure would have a consequence. Game needs variety, failures need to have some kind of consequences for PVE to be more enjoyable for those who like it, also performing better should have better results. There are a lot of other factors that need improvement or introduction, but don't want to write a short essay for you, this is not the place for it.
-
Ok, I will try to explain what's the thing about 2238 Stockholm Syndrome, as I interpret it in Nice_Boat's post.
But first, let me show the difference between good quest design and bad quest design.
To understand this, we need to understand what computer games are about, why they are fun, and why people are playing them.
It's all about dopamine. Completing a challenge and getting a reward. But it has to be a particular kind of challenge.
An example of good quest design is the Mutant quest you proposed to get nerfed.
To complete the quest player prepares, getting good armor, weapon, and a bunch of super stimpaks. Then the player goes into the cave, shoots everything and gets a reward. But this is not the whole story. It's not the same as going into a mine, digging rocks by clicking on them, and getting a reward. It's completely different, because digging rocks is automatic. It's a great thing for autoclickers and other kinds of bots, but not for humans. Shooting the mutants is not (so) automatic. You have to be careful, position yourself well, decide when to spend AP to shoot and when to use a stimpak, run away when it's necessary. For best results, try to take out one mutant at a time. You actually have a challenge that's fun and interesting, and after you kill all the mutants and loot their bodies, that feels good, man. Shooting the mutants and then looting, that's when the dopamine is released. And you just love the quest and you want to do it again tomorrow.
An example of bad quest design is the Junktown Telltale dog quest.
You get the quest, but you switch to Turn-Based before of course, because you'd die in 20 seconds otherwise. You go into the location, and shoot the dog. Walk away. Shoot the dog. Walk away. Oh, the dog approached you. Now go to the grid. Waaalk to the grid. Next turn, waaalk to the grid. Slowly, because turn-based mode is so fucking slow. Next turn... You're out. Go to the location again. Shoot the dog. Walk away. Shoot the dog. Walk away.
The dog has fucking 3000hp and it takes forever.
Is this a challenge? Kind of... Do you see the difference between this challenge and the previous one? I hope everyone does. This really feels like digging rocks. From a programmer's point of view, you can easily write a bot for this one, but not for the previous one (where you would actually have to implement some kind of smart tactics). Really, this quest is for computers, not for humans, again.
And after I kill the dog, I feel like I did nothing. And I loot a shitty Sniper Rifle. Yawn, time to turn this game off. No dopamine. Zero.
Oh, and also the Mutie quest is nothing like placing a NPC at your tent that gives you stuff because this also gives zero dopamine. Zero challenge, no reward (getting stuff for nothing is NOT a reward). NPC giving stuff is actually like the second quest!
Now, 2238 was all about grinding. Grinding, grinding, grinding, where you feel like you're doing nothing. How I interpret Nice_Boat's post, is that people playing 2238 got used to the slavery of grinding and now they actually miss it when it's gone. That's what's called Stockholm Syndrome. And maybe that's why the caravans and Telltales got nerfed, so we can grind floaters and centaurs?
Maybe your proposed nerfs are different kinds of nerfs. But what's wrong here is that we're thinking about nerfing (making the game LESS fun) instead of buffing (making the game MORE fun).
edit: the problem with Mutie quest is not that it's OP. It's a logical first conclusion when you see that this is the only quest worth doing. But when you dig deeper, there's a different problem there. The problem is that the other quests are shit. And this quest is simply OK. It's just the only thing we have now.