Avenger minigun

[Adams]

Ok then maybe lets just make point blank burst with 3brd ignore targets damage treshold and damage resistance with exception for power armors. How about that?

2 Seki: If you really think that a shotgun should be better at close range than a heavy machine gun which also requires 3 more perks 2 more special and costs 2 ap more per shot you got it twisted.

[jacky]

nerf pancors knock back

[drot]

nerf pancors knock back

Nerf shotgun knockback in general.

[Sperber]

nerf pancors knock back

Nerf shotgun knockback in general.

http://forum.fonline-reloaded.net/index.php?topic=3851.0
http://forum.fonline-reloaded.net/index.php?topic=3290.msg25891#msg25891

[dskpnk]

nerf pancors knock back

Totaly agreed, actualy it's rly rly complicated to win a fight vs a pancor,pancor builds have more hp/dr and burst cost less AP and make same damages + knock back effect give onehex invulnerability !

I think reduce a little knock back chances (actualy it's something like 100% if burst from 9hex?)

+ can think about the perk about legs don't remember the name @lvl6, but if u need to take this perk u lost toughness so -dr -dt on a low dr build already.

[Sperber]

I think shotguns should be nerfed but in return there could be a perk or two that boost them again.
Makes shotgun tanks do less damage and shotgun damage dealers squishier.

[jacky]

Why? Dmg is fine but permanent knock back is to strong

[sogabe]

I play a non-tank melee and I seem to be able to kill pancor users most of the time.
On the other hand I have very slim chance against minigun users so I thought they're the most OP but I guess they have their own problems too then..

[Strike]

Like I told earlier, I really doubt there will be changes for avenger as there are many other weapons that need buff instead of avenger (+ nerf)

Well quite much talk for avenger, so far.

[dskpnk]

I think the best way to equilibrate pancor vs other close range builds is :

- Decreasing knock effect (i think actualy it's 100%, maybe go to 75%).
- Change Tree trunk tight who is actualy useless (nobody shots legs) to a perk reducing change of knowks againts roskets/grenades/shotguns.
- Reduce a bit pancor dmg cause to take knoxk anticrit u will sacrify DR + actually dmg are already too high.

Why not change stonewall ?

- Cause it's a lvl 9 perks and u need all perk after lvl 6 for "avenger" burster build but u can take "Tree trunk tight" at lvl 6 sacrifying "toughness".

- U need to change build for stonewall and avenger builds don't have many free special points.

- Actually avenger should have chance against pancor build in close range, actualy if u have a descent player in front of u it's impossible to win a avenger vs pancor fight (exept the lucky crit from space) cause pancor burst cost -1ap (u can place 3rd shot 4 ap before an avenger), make more damage if no 1hex and are impossible to 1hex+ pancor builds have more hp and more dr than avengers.

So Pancor need knock reduce and small dmg reduce (actualy pancor can kill u in 2 shots should be 3 shots), and perk for anti knock should be  Tree trunk tight and not stonewall (easier to chance build and -1 useless perk).

[jacky]

Make 1roll for burst instead from every bullet. Pancor burst should Have 50% to knock u back.

[Kilgore]

It's already done, just waiting for update.

[mojuk]

I think the best way to equilibrate pancor vs other close range builds is :
- Decreasing knock effect (i think actualy it's 100%, maybe go to 75%).
- Reduce a bit pancor dmg cause to take knoxk anticrit u will sacrify DR + actually dmg are already too high.
- Actually avenger should have chance against pancor build in close range, actualy if u have a descent player in front of u it's impossible to win a avenger vs pancor fight (exept the lucky crit from space) cause pancor burst cost -1ap (u can place 3rd shot 4 ap before an avenger), make more damage if no 1hex and are impossible to 1hex+ pancor builds have more hp and more dr than avengers.
So Pancor need knock reduce and small dmg reduce (actualy pancor can kill u in 2 shots should be 3 shots)

I more or less agree.

Why not change stonewall ?
- Cause it's a lvl 9 perks and u need all perk after lvl 6 for "avenger" burster build but u can take "Tree trunk tight" at lvl 6 sacrifying "toughness".
- U need to change build for stonewall and avenger builds don't have many free special points.
- and perk for anti knock should be  Tree trunk tight and not stonewall (easier to chance build and -1 useless perk).

Yes, any normal avenger build can't afford stonewall. But I wouldn't say it can afford to lose 6th level perk also.
I think brd(+2) + brd (+2) + mrd  (+3) should be changed into brd (+3) + mrd (+4) formula. Because every build go tanky (even snipers with 281 is nothing weird right now) while avengers always lose 3 perks compared to other close range builds.

Make 1roll for burst instead from every bullet. Pancor burst should Have 50% to knock u back.

Actualy per bullet crit is the only thing right now saving avegners from being pve weapon only. Without it it would be more like 55, 63, 49... oh! crit! 110 dmg when fighting tanks.

[dskpnk]

Yes, any normal avenger build can't afford stonewall. But I wouldn't say it can afford to lose 6th level perk also.
I think brd(+2) + brd (+2) + mrd  (+3) should be changed into brd (+3) + mrd (+4) formula. Because every build go tanky (even snipers with 281 is nothing weird right now) while avengers always lose 3 perks compared to other close range builds.

Yes it's will be hard choice to take this lvl 6 perk instead of toughness but this is the only perks u eventualy can change, all other perks after lvl 6 perks are must have perks for avengers.

[mojuk]

New Videos uploaded on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/FOnlineReloaded/feed?activity_view=3

From 10 videos from last week I counted (didn't count companions):
1 plasma pistol
1 223 pistol
1 alien blaster
1 laser rifle
2 xl
3 lsw
5 snipe rifle
11 rocket launcher
12 gatling
16 avenger
41 pancors

so you can assume than it's more or less
4 pancors
1 avenger
1 gatling
1 rocket
1 other weapon
in 3 vs 3 fight
nice balance

dmg example from this fight
avenger vs pancor:
avenger did: 96, 76
pancor did: 145

later on
avenger did: 81, 54
pancor did: 146, 138

gatling vs pancor:
gatling did: 79
pancor did: 151, 106

pancor vs pancor
pancor 1 did: 69, 113, 103, 82
pancor 2 did: 109, 80, 69

So yeah, only weapon that can fight vs pancor is another pancor, gg!