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Topic: improved flamer mk3  (Read 10675 times)

jacky

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2013, 10:40:41 am »
it has bigger range, from 5 up to 7hexes.
Why no recpie, to avoid situation when u have another ap reduce, with brof it would be imbalance wepon 4ap/per burst

flamer could be perfect anty hth weapon and room cleaner
 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 10:45:21 am by jacky »

baskila

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2013, 11:55:19 am »
Not to burst your bubble but the two already existing flamers have range 8 each.

Also, if you want them with no recipe then they should be treated as special items like i.e. Solar Scorcher. If you give them to enclave it will mean that only groups of players can get them and not solo players. Plus those flamers as being special would not overflow the market so it would be alright.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 12:00:44 pm by baskila »

jacky

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2013, 12:09:40 pm »
my bad,
flamer mk3= +2range, 20-25% bigger base damage, ap reduce, and pyromaniac multiple pyromaniac *125%

they can be achieved like gatlings because it will be v powerfull bg weapon

+1 new bg build and pyromaniac would be finally useful

« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 12:44:24 pm by jacky »

Gooseberry

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2013, 12:48:24 pm »
I think they should be craftable like other weapons. There is really no reason not to. The flamer will always have the major weakness of having an absolutely horrible range.

[/quote]
You can do flamer tanks with high luck and high end sacrificing perception and using psycho, then you can do 120~~ dmg twice on 8 hexes, I think it's quite cool, when you can also make a critical strike.
[/quote]
Every proper pvp BG build in existance has 10 end and can use psycho, jet etc. In addition, they do the same damage from 30 hexes. So really, I think a flamer mk3 would need quite some damage to become viable. Which can be done really.

Struan

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2013, 12:51:08 pm »
And why should anyone not in a gang be excluded from this aswome weapon? I dont get it, dont you guys already have enough of an advantage over loners and smaller groups? I would love to use one of these beastly machines so I hope its available to everyone if ever its implemented.

jacky

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2013, 01:30:38 pm »
you can allways buy it. top stuff isnt for everyone. flamer mk3 would be perfect for solo wastelanders but it is to sweet to give to noobs :)
i am joking but i prefer to keep it as weapon not for everyone

Struan

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2013, 01:49:52 pm »
I prefer everyone being on the same lvl. If my lvl 29 met your lvl 29 in a 1on 1 encounter why should I be at a disadvantage just because you happen to be in a faction? I'll never understand this logic that I should be excluded from any gear just because it comes from a tc box. Give everyone the same gear and let skill decide the outcome.

Perteks

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2013, 01:54:18 pm »
I prefer everyone being on the same lvl. If my lvl 29 met your lvl 29 in a 1on 1 encounter why should I be at a disadvantage just because you happen to be in a faction? I'll never understand this logic that I should be excluded from any gear just because it comes from a tc box. Give everyone the same gear and let skill decide the outcome.
Because life is unfair ? Why one guy with 5 muties should have bigger advantage than one guy with plasma rifle? Because he have 5 muties he worked for it (or few ppl worked).

Solo player always will have disadvantage here.
Wasteland is harsh and you are not a chosen one.

baskila

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2013, 03:40:06 pm »
I prefer everyone being on the same lvl. If my lvl 29 met your lvl 29 in a 1on 1 encounter why should I be at a disadvantage just because you happen to be in a faction? I'll never understand this logic that I should be excluded from any gear just because it comes from a tc box. Give everyone the same gear and let skill decide the outcome.

Absolutely agree. There's many people who play solo and they should be treated equally. That's why if this weapon wouldn't be craft-able it should be special like many other weapons already in game. That way everybody is on equal ground and everyone can find it themselves simply treasure hunting.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 03:43:07 pm by baskila »

DocAN

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2013, 08:09:08 pm »
Does any of You tested Improved Flamer with mk2 ammo and Pyromaniac perks?

I guess not.

T-888

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2013, 10:17:23 pm »
I prefer everyone being on the same lvl. bla bla bla

Tell me, do you participate in town control?

Big

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2013, 12:36:44 am »
Does any of You tested Improved Flamer with mk2 ammo and Pyromaniac perks?

I guess not.

I have Pyromaniac(2), Improved Flamer, and MKII ammo. With the penetrate perk added onto a flamer, it would make things really fun.

Nark

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2013, 12:43:30 am »
The flamers in Reloaded are probably the best I've seen them in an iteration of FOnline so far. I've experimented with a lot of Flamer-based builds in old 2238 and in TLA Mk2.

The problem with the Flamer is that you need a specialized build (2 pyromaniacs) to use it even close to effectively in pvp, and if you want to do more than 1 Flamer "burst" in succession it's required that you have Jet (a huge nerf in and of itself) or 2 Action Boys. Taking 2 action boys means sacrificing some perks that are really useful in close range combat (like Lifegiver), this is where the Flamer has its only chance to do damage.

When the change happened that made all Big Guns take 7 AP to use (rather than 6 AP like in Fallout 2, as well as removing the effect of Fast Shot on big guns), the developers obviously didn't think hard enough about what that does to the lower end of the category, it was done in the name of "they are all big guns durr" (let's completely forget the fact that Flamers also used to take 6 Strength to use rather than the 7 in 2238) rather than in the name of "balance".

Where the M60, LSW, Miniguns and Rockets make sense in having a high AP cost because they are so damn powerful and versatile in comparison, the Flamers got the shit end of the stick and were never developed any further than making you have to take 2 perk slots to be effective with them.

At the range where the Improved Flamer does damage, any other Big Gun can put out a similar amount of damage in the same amount of time due to the same AP cost, whilst still having a 27-hex+ range advantage. Or if you run through their first flame while they are waiting for the few APs for the second one, you can one-hex them for three times their damage.

I have given plenty of feedback on this subject in the old 2238 forums with extensive knowledge on the subject after having many flamer builds, and the AP cost being equal to that of an Avenger or M60 is the only problem I can see with them in Reloaded after the range buff. I wouldn't go as far as to make Flamer Mk3's with penetrate perks and other shit to balance a gun that only needs a reduction of 1 AP to become a viable short range damage dealer in pvp.

And yes, I know -1 AP special crafts exist, point is that no build should rely on a random stat roll on a hard-to-find-blueprints-for and possibly hard to craft weapon for a build to be effective in pvp, it should be treated as a bonus rather than a way to make it viable. On an M60 or Avenger you don't need -1 AP on it to do enough damage to take down your opponent quicker than they can you, on an Improved Flamer vs higher level armors it is a requirement.

TL;DR: Only buff flamers need is Improved Flamer -1 base AP cost, suddenly enhanced viability in close range combat with specialized builds, keeping their users toe to toe with other Big Gunners if they use the location to minimize the range disadvantage.

Sincerely hope Kilgore reads this and ignores opinions of people who have no idea what they're talking about.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 12:48:33 am by Nark »
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Big

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2013, 01:28:49 am »
-snip-

It takes 3 alloys and 1 wood to craft a flamer, just craft them until you get a -1 AP (literally takes 2 tries). Once you do that, upgrade it.

not that hard

Struan

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Re: improved flamer mk3
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2013, 02:46:10 am »
Yes I have used the flamers on Reloaded. I have 2 builds here and both are pyro's with improved flamer and mk2 fuel. It's a first for me to even make a dedicated build for them rather than a cheap way of lvling a BG'er. In fact I just registered an even better one last night after seeing how well they preform in small scale battles, and I have no interest in TC  but so what? My only point is that if a better version is added then I would like to see it be made available to everyone.