Fast Shot change

[kill n die]

Completly useless? Oh please,like 2 ap per shoot isn't enough...

4-5AP burst while isn't stronger than 5 single shots (and that is from long range only) it definitely kicks more than 2-3 single shots so yeah - useless is the right word.

bursts have biger dmg roll and every one bullet have 5percent chance to miss per hex...

[plenty]

Kilgore
Hey, don't leave, Mr. plenty!

I never said I would; I'm just done discussing your mod. So, please, stop poking me.

I'm still waiting about info what I omit in changelogs.

Release the source, and I will compare files with 2238 to highlight all possible changes omited in changelogs, ok?

For now:
California Zephyr leaves the station 10 minutes later than it used to be (and dialog is untouched)? Recent change. Got a saved copy of changelogs too, btw., nothing there.

Btw nice drama caused by MENTIONING some nerf that might happen in future, though not specified when actually...

Nah, it is a reaction to your approach to players. If I wanted to show drama, I could show the post on instanced dungeons. Both iterations were deleted, but I still have a copy.

I've got a strong feeling, that by some coincidence, "Desert Drifters" faction is massively using 1 AP spammers :>

3 or 4 chars like that. 4 snipers, 4+ bursters and 5+ mele-miners. The "coincidence" is our ability to plan builds.

We also have a copy of a conversation with one of the GMs, from the first weeks (21/09/2013), showing he wasn't even aware such build can be made (IMO due to -1 AP crafting bonus):

22:04:03 • Tough Deathclaw was hit for 26 hit points.
22:04:04 • Tough Deathclaw was hit for 25 hit points.
22:04:05 • Tough Deathclaw was hit for 24 hit points.
22:04:06 • Tough Deathclaw was hit for 21 hit points.
22:04:08 • Tough Deathclaw was hit for 27 hit points and was killed.
22:04:08 • You have gained 1750 experience points.
22:04:10 • Mean Centaur was hit for 33 hit points.
22:04:13 • Mean Centaur was critically hit in the head for 27 hit points, knocked down, had his armor bypassed and lost his next turn.
22:04:14 • Mean Centaur was hit for 6 hit points.
22:04:17 • Radio 6556> ss..btw, Bozara ciezko ogarnac chyba ;p..ss
22:04:19 • Overseer was hit for 50 hit points.
22:04:20 • Overseer was hit for 57 hit points.
22:04:22 • Overseer was hit for 51 hit points.
22:04:23 • Overseer was hit for 55 hit points.
22:04:28 • Overseer was hit for 52 hit points.
22:04:30 • Overseer was hit for 59 hit points.
22:04:31 • Overseer was hit for 50 hit points.
22:04:33 • Overseer was hit for 50 hit points.
22:04:34 • Overseer was hit for 46 hit points.
22:04:36 • Overseer was hit for 57 hit points.
22:04:39 • Overseer: very nice
22:04:43 • Overseer was hit for 52 hit points.
22:04:47 • Mean Centaur was hit for 6 hit points.
22:04:49 • Mean Centaur was hit for 7 hit points.
22:04:50 • Mean Centaur was hit for 6 hit points.
22:04:53 • Sm Tough Deathclaw was hit for 7 hit points.
22:04:54 • Sm Tough Deathclaw was hit for 6 hit points.
22:05:01 • Conantra: sorry i didnt know
22:05:04 • Oops! Mean Centaur was hit instead of Sm Tough Deathclaw!.
22:05:04 • Mean Centaur was hit for 30 hit points.
22:05:05 • Sm Tough Deathclaw was hit for 30 hit points.
22:05:06 • Sm Tough Deathclaw was hit for 33 hit points.
22:05:07 • You missed.
22:05:09 • Sm Tough Deathclaw was critically hit for 101 hit points and had his armor bypassed.
22:05:10 • Sm Tough Deathclaw was hit for 34 hit points.
22:05:11 • You missed.
22:05:12 • Mean Centaur was hit for 31 hit points.
22:05:17 • Sm Tough Deathclaw was hit for 34 hit points.
22:05:19 • Sm Tough Deathclaw was hit for 33 hit points and was killed.
22:05:19 • You have gained 750 experience points.
22:05:20 • Mean Centaur was hit for 34 hit points and was killed.
22:05:20 • You have gained 900 experience points.
22:05:24 • Overseer: now tell how do you have special all 10 and so much infinite Action ppoints
22:05:50 • Conantra: weapon - 1
22:05:51 • Radio 6556> ss..hmm, staty moje to 5 9 8 1 4 9 5, ale jak chcesz na BG to na pewno musisz dac wiecej w EN..ss
22:05:55 • Conantra: armor +1
22:05:58 • Conantra: fast shot
22:06:03 • Radio 6556> ss..kosztem L i PE..ss
22:06:12 • Conantra: bonus rate
22:06:21 • Conantra: 10 ag
22:06:29 • Radio 6556> ss..spadam bo w tv jeden z moich ulubionych filmov Scarface ..ss
22:06:40 • Conantra: polski
22:06:41 • Overseer: all SPECIAL = 10
22:06:42 • Conantra: ?
22:06:58 • Conantra: i dont know man
22:07:07 • Conantra: st 5
22:07:13 • Conantra: pe 9
22:07:15 • Conantra: c
22:07:16 • Radio 6556> ss..no i ja traits dalem w small frame co dla BG chyba nie zdaje egzaminu..ss
22:07:16 • Conantra: c
22:07:22 • Conantra: en
22:07:33 • Conantra: wait my friend is comming
22:07:49 • Conantra: hees going for radio
22:08:01 • Radio 6556> ss.. powiedz mi jeszkze jak Ty chcesz snipera BG jak burst nie ma opcji mierzenia? :d..ss
22:08:34 • Overseer: oki oki
22:08:38 • Conantra: dd
22:08:49 • Conantra: ...hhhh...
22:08:49 • Radio 54390> ss..HHhh..ss
22:08:49 • Radio 1986> ss..HHhh..ss
22:09:00 • You see Radio.
22:09:10 • Radio 54390> ss..dhdhd..ss
22:09:10 • Conantra: ...dhdhd...
22:09:28 • Conantra: poczekaj chwile ja sie nie znam
22:09:33 • Conantra: wait a moment
22:09:41 • Overseer: no czekam czekam
22:09:44 • Radio 6556> ss..:3..ss
22:09:49 • Overseer: wez z tymi turami zorb co
22:09:55 • Conantra: lord plenty / sille idzie
22:10:01 • Conantra: sorry ale zdurnialem
22:10:01 • Overseer: lol mam sie bac?
22:10:02 • Radio 6556> ss..jak wrocisz daj znac..ss
22:10:16 • Sille: siema
22:10:29 • Conantra: wez mi wytlumacz ocb ?
22:10:34 • Overseer: nie wiem ocb
22:10:38 • Overseer: sam zdurnialem
22:10:40 • You see Overseer.
22:10:43 • Sille: wlasnie, over, o co chodzi?
22:10:47 • Overseer: wez te tury zakoncz czy cos
22:11:03 • Overseer: no wreszcie
22:11:04 • Sille: killgore?
22:11:04 • Overseer: moge sie ruszyc
22:11:06 • Overseer:
22:11:09 • Overseer: nie kilgore
22:11:19 • Sille: mowze co sie stalo?
22:11:21 • Overseer: on ma juz powyzej uszu wzystkiego
22:11:32 • Overseer: juz o nic
22:11:49 • Overseer: pomylka sory mysle ze sie nic nie stalo , glupie dorbne zmaieszanie
22:11:50 • Conantra: mowiles ze mam wszystko na full ?
22:11:55 • Overseer: jakis niedorobiony coiul mnie wrobil
22:11:57 • Sille: spammer build, jesli o ilosc strzalow idzie
22:12:08 • Sille: ta postac identycznie
22:12:12 • Conantra: sorry 2 tydzien gram
22:12:14 • Overseer: podziwiam i nie sadzielm ze mozna tyle wycisnac
22:12:19 • Conantra: autorem postaci jest kolega obok
22:12:25 • Radio 1986> ss..whos that?..ss
22:12:25 • Sille: mozna wiecej z hetem
22:12:25 • You take damage from poison.
22:12:26 • Overseer: Sille
22:12:28 • Sille: jetem
22:12:32 • Overseer: powiedz ile AP mozna m,iec na takiej postaci
22:12:36 • Sille: 14
22:12:36 • Conantra: 13
22:12:40 • Overseer: mega
22:12:40 • Conantra: + 2 na ruch
22:12:46 • You take damage from poison.
22:12:49 • Conantra: czekaj pokaze ci staff
22:12:52 • Overseer: a drugi?
22:12:52 • Conantra: i
22:12:54 • Sille: tylko wszczepow trzeba
22:12:57 • Overseer: z drugami mozna wiecej?
22:13:02 • You see Unique Pancor Jackhammer.
22:13:02 • Overseer: impantow?
22:13:06 • Sille: licze dragi
22:13:10 • You take damage from poison.
22:13:11 • Conantra: i
22:13:12 • Sille: 14 max z jetem
22:13:33 • Overseer: oo
22:13:34 • You take damage from poison.
22:13:34 • You feel better.
22:13:35 • Overseer: najs
22:13:39 • Sille: 9 agi base + 1 kiedys wszczep (teraz nuka) +2 action boy + 2 jet
22:14:02 • Sille: fast shoot+bonus rate of fire + -ap na broni
22:14:11 • Overseer: niezle sprzetry
22:14:12 • Overseer:
22:14:15 • Sille: ze zbroja +1ap da sie nawet 15 ap
22:14:23 • Overseer: to stad tyle bonusow i strzalow w turze
22:14:24 • Sille: i burst za 5
22:14:31 • Picking all items.
22:14:32 • Sille: nom
22:14:44 • Conantra: zkrafcilem ok 100 szt broni zeby to wykulac
22:14:46 • Sille: strzaly za 1 ap
22:14:53 • Overseer: podziwiam i
22:14:59 • Overseer: respekt +5
22:15:03 • Sille: ^_^
22:15:07 • Overseer:
22:15:22 • Overseer: ja na testach cos krafcilem ale nie udalo mi sie nic sensownego
22:15:23 • Overseer: btw
22:15:31 • Overseer: gdzie my w jakim rejonie na enco jestesmy?
22:15:38 • Sille: pustynia
22:15:44 • Overseer: no wime ale jakie miasto w poblizu
22:15:46 • Sille: prawo od mariposy
22:15:48 • Overseer: a ok
22:16:02 • Overseer: noto w dordze do sf z ncr albo odrwotnie ktos tu moze zjarzec ;p
22:16:09 • Overseer: wiec
22:16:18 • Sille: no dobra, zmykamy
22:16:20 • Sille:
22:16:20 • Overseer: proponuje aby sie rozjesc do nakazanych czynnosci
22:16:26 • Sille: pozdro
22:16:31 • Overseer: wiec sille do namiotu
22:16:32 • Overseer:
22:16:40 • Overseer: bo penwie gdzies tu bkisko jest
22:16:47 • Overseer: nar i sory Conantra
22:18:49 • Other characters on worldmap in zone: Sille,Overseer,
22:20:10 • You have gained 80 experience points.
22:20:15 • You encounter: Tough Fire Geckos and Aliens.

[Kilgore]

Release the source, and I will compare files with 2238 to highlight all possible changes omited in changelogs, ok?

For now:
California Zephyr leaves the station 10 minutes later than it used to be (and dialog is untouched)? Recent change. Got a saved copy of changelogs too, btw., nothing there.

Trains were always bugged (on 2238) too, but FYI, nothing was changed for them. What the fuck would be such change for, anyway? 10 minutes later? Jesus, start being reasonable.

We also have a copy of a conversation with one of the GMs, from the first weeks (21/09/2013), showing he wasn't even aware such build can be made (IMO due to -1 AP crafting bonus):

And since when every admin has to be aware of every change that's being made and it's consequences? Cubik doesn't have to, especially that he haven't even played 2238 for long.. so what? Your problem is that you don't have a fucking idea about development, how it's made and what's needed. But if you do, then please make some mod that I can play for months and also make some forum where I can troll you.

It's fine that you save copy of everything, I couldn't care less about it, because I don't have anything to hide. You were already banned for trolling, but you never learn anything, so let's try it again. Damn, another dramawolf...

[Kirkor]

That's it Kilgore, I had enough! I can forgive you many things, but train leaving 10 minutes later?! Where is my "delete account" button?!

[Sperber]

Capping single shots at 2AP would ruin TB spammers? That's nonsense.

TB spammers worked with 2AP shots in 2238 and they would as well here.

Perhaps they won't be able to farm enclave soldiers with pancors as easily
or completely wipe out a caravan in one combat turn,
but to that I can only say "Ah boo hoo hoo!". :D

[Perteks]

Just change fast shot to again - 1 ap no matter what weapon ( still only affect single shot)

[Sperber]

Just change fast shot to again - 1 ap no matter what weapon ( still only affect single shot)

I agree. 1AP pistols and 2A rifles seems reasonable.

[Kaaon]

so .223 pistol OP

[Sperber]

so .223 pistol OP

It has only 5 shots. 30 range is a bit much perhaps, but I wouldn't call it OP.
Alien Blaster or Plasma Pistol ext cap are much better.

[Kaaon]

so .223 pistol OP

It has only 5 shots. 30 range is a bit much perhaps, but I wouldn't call it OP.
Alien Blaster or Plasma Pistol ext cap are much better.

10 shots if you have 2 of them, 13 shots in turn (10 shots, 2 reload, 3 shots = 15 APs), try to survive 
one shot is doing ~40 damage to combat armor, 40x13 = 520 damage in one turn
ofc lower if you got psycho/toughness/adrenaline rush etc but anyway its one of the best weapon for spammer

[Sperber]

so .223 pistol OP

It has only 5 shots. 30 range is a bit much perhaps, but I wouldn't call it OP.
Alien Blaster or Plasma Pistol ext cap are much better.

10 shots if you have 2 of them, 13 shots in turn (10 shots, 2 reload, 3 shots = 15 APs), try to survive  ;)
one shot is doing ~40 damage to combat armor, 40x13 = 520 damage in one turn
ofc lower if you got psycho/toughness/adrenaline rush etc but anyway its one of the best weapon for spammer

I would lower the range to 20 to be honest.

1-handed energy weapons are still much more broken.

Guess we need the 2AP cap afterall.

[ElSlayer]

so .223 pistol OP

It has only 5 shots. 30 range is a bit much perhaps, but I wouldn't call it OP.
Alien Blaster or Plasma Pistol ext cap are much better.

I would lower the range to 20 to be honest.

1-handed energy weapons are still much more broken.

1. Both 1-handed and 2-handed crafted -1 AP energy weapons (and Turbo Plasma Rifle) has same 1 AP cost, but 2-handed ones have more damage. Why do you think that 1-handed are broken? Why Plasma Pistol? Because of ext. cap? You can have two of .223 which is 10 shots without reload - just as Seki says.

2. Alien Blaster has 2 AP cost to fire. That is not even close to .223 with -1 AP bonus, because it has to do x2 more damage than .223 and it is not.

Let me try to do the math (I've wasted 40 mins to make that table - don't disappoint me now  ):

corrected Normal Resistances is DR/DT when using .223 ammo and Penetrate weapon perk

			+ +	+	+ + +
Resistances		40/5 Normal (10/2 corrected) 50/4 Plasma 45/2 Electrical	60/5 Normal (30/2 corrected) 50/4 Plasma 45/2 Electrical	55/10 Normal (25/3 corrected) 50/4 Plasma 45/2 Electrical	75/10 Normal (45/3 corrected) 50/4 Plasma 45/2 Electrical
-1 AP craft bonus	30-40 Normal avg 35 per AP	(35-2)*0.9 = 29.7	(35-2)*0.7 = 23.1	(35-3)*0.75 = 24	(35-3)*0.55 = 17.6
	45-65 Electrical avg 55 27.5 per AP Fastshot and Living Anatomy bonuses are halved too	(27.5-2)*0.55 = 14.025	14.025	14.025	14.025
-1 AP craft bonus	30-45 Plasma avg 37.5 per AP	(37.5-4)*0.5 = 16.75	16.75	16.75	16.75
	50-70 Plasma avg 60 per AP	(60-4)*0.5 = 28	28	28	28

[Kilgore]

Bump

What do you think about the idea that -1 AP weapon bonus would work only for RT?

[Kaaon]

Bump

What do you think about the idea that -1 AP weapon bonus would work only for RT?

nice idea but what about turbo plasma rifle ? 1 ap cost even without -ap bonus

[Strike]

Bump

What do you think about the idea that -1 AP weapon bonus would work only for RT?

Well, yeah this would solve problem with TB combat.

You don't have time to aim for a targeted attack, because you shoot faster than normal people.

And doesn't Fast Shot description sounds like it would be used for RT?

Edit: And what is this "Turbo plasma rifle madness"?