[Wipe] Support builds and perks

[Sperber]

I always liked the idea of builds that are not mainly fighters.
There are a few reasons for why they were very rare in 2238 and pretty much non-existant in Reloaded.
First, because they are not much more effective in their field than anyone else or just too weak overall
and second because the mechanics get in the way or make them pointless, most prominently the unlimited skillpoints of Reloaded.

So, how do we make medics, demolition experts and leaders viable?
The answer is actually quite easy; Perks!

Perks are pretty much the most precious advantage a character can have over others.
Therefor I suggest to make the medic perks more powerful, move demolition perks to the level perks
and add a few others like leader perks than can boost your faction allies or group members when they are nearby.

This would not only add more fun ways to experience the game but also make pvp more diverse and tactical.

If you have this one very skilled player that's pretty much worth 2 or 3 regular players, a medic can keep him alive longer.
A demolition expert can place traps in certain strategic points and take out many players at once if he's good at it
and a leader can serve as a spearhead to guide a squad tactically and boost their morale (stats).

So, let's discuss these potential builds and perks here and see where it takes us.

[Sperber]

Medic

The medic has the following related perks:

Blessed Are the Weak: Currently has no use as characters can't be weakened.
Healer and Healer+: Seem fine, but a bit boring perhaps and two perks might be excessive for what they are.
Medic: Pretty useful for healers, but I'd add a feature that allows you to spot allied players that should "MEDIC"
no matter if they are hidden behind walls, inside buildings, sneaking or whatever.

Someone suggested before that there should be a perk that allows you to doctor knocked out players back to consciousness.
Maybe Blessed Are the Weak could be changed into this with another small advantage added.

[Sperber]

Demolition Expert

The demolition expert pretty much only has two perks:    Demolition Expert and Light Step,
which aren't even level-based but support perks. Maybe these should be boosted a bit and moved to regular perks.

Would fit in nicely with this suggestion: http://forum.fonline-reloaded.net/index.php?topic=5419.0

Maybe this build idea could be merged with the grenadier and have it's perks boost grenades and launchers as well.

[Sperber]

Leader

The leader build has no perks at all yet, but there are several examples in the original Fallout games,
such as "Leader" or "Team Player" from Fallout Tactics that boost yourself and/or your teammates.

Boosts could be something like +1 PE, AG, LK or AP or even a combination if you take this perk more than once.

To avoid abuse through dozens of leader alts each team should only be able to have one such character,
either by being the faction leader or having only those that tagged the leader get boosted.

If possible, it would also be interesting to have a perk that increases the amount of players you can lead.

[Corax]

Engineer

Can control robots. Or take control of enemy robots/turrets.

I know that allowing use armed robots in PvP will cause the same what was with companions.
But something like scout robots(works like MS but with lower range can run independly of owner) or tank robots(just moving wall) or just cameras mounted somewhere.

[Strike]

This suggestion will lead for even more alting, than it is now. I like characters which can be used for multiple non-combat things, for fighting those characters are horrible.

And after wipe there will be some perk changes:

- Perk changes in order to make some perks more interesting.

[Kilgore]

Moving support perks to regular perks will encourage using alts.

[Celard]

I was thinking lately about ,,Field medic" perk. It gives you high AC when you running to preform surgery (after you point target to heal with yellow point). It works only when you have stimpack, field medic kit, paramedic bag , superstimpac ect. in used slot (no guns). AC bonus last to preforming operation or to end of 2-3 second cooldown for this perk.

But I did not think this perk too well... And also AC will probably be fully reworked afer wipe.

Also i want to remind about this perk usefull for medic:

This one perk from TLAmk2 is also nice:

Reanimator

Requitments: level 21 , AG 5 , Doctor 120% (need to be change in reoladed)
   
When using the Doctor skill on a character killed without a critical/violent animation, that character has a chance to be revived based on the formula: Doctor / 4 + LK * 2

what do you think?

For leader bulid maybe something like ,,Mark of death". This will be something like ,,follow mark" but this is red and visible for all players. The mark last 5 seconds and give some bonus to shooters (for example accurancy bonus, or increase crit chance or critroll) after this mark will disapear. Only one mark per character. Bonus from mark od death shoudnt be OP of corse...

[Sperber]

Moving support perks to regular perks will encourage using alts.

Maybe, but being able to do everything with one character is also stupid.
Alts are not a bad thing, if they're all actual characters.

[Strike]

Maybe, but being able to do everything with one character is also stupid.
Alts are not a bad thing, if they're all actual characters.

IMO using 1 character, instead of 10 to 20 alts is more useful and not so stupid.

[Sperber]

IMO using 1 character, instead of 10 to 20 alts is more useful and not so stupid.

Anyone that uses 10-20 alts uses them to get around some kind of inconvenience,
like companion alts that basically just stay at your base to hold companions
or as one-trick-ponies to abuse some kind of mechanic,
like companion camper alts.

I don't see why having alts that are actual characters with actual playstyles is a bad thing.
Snipers, sneakers, melees, spammers and tanks play differently, so why not add more possibilities?
You are not forced to play these builds. You should just have the option to, if you want.

Also, alting hasn't even decreased that much after 2238.
People still have at least one dedicated crafter/miner and most likely 2 fighting builds.
1 for PVE which is probably also a lockpicker/trapper and 1 pure PVP build.

People make alts to abuse companions, cap-spawn at shops or for fast-relog scouting/looting.

To me it seems that you guys just get scared or annoyed when you hear the word "alt",
but it's actually a good thing to have more than one character if they're all fun and play differently.

Otherwise people just get bored after a while of playing their jack-of-all-trades tank.

[Celard]

Moving support perks to regular perks will encourage using alts.

Maybe, but being able to do everything with one character is also stupid.
Alts are not a bad thing, if they're all actual characters.

More perks leads to more possible bulids. But number of alts depends on players time to play. More alts you have - you must spend more time to develope them to gain proper level to be fully functional. So nolifes will have plenty of alts due they have more time for play. "From time to time players" will be forced to plan their build carefuly to have minimum number of alts or get lost in them... They must base on their experiences, advices and information on forum/wiki and in the end everything depends on balance issues (which ,,PvP class" is the best) and personal feelings or rather preferences. Worth mentioning that unsatysfied with they bulids players might become supporters for reroll to save their time.

New perks are always good because its brings more variety. Players can disscus about new builds, do some experimental builds and share experience. PvP requires teamwork and each build have advantages or disadvantages. Characters with more alts is more flexiable because for each combat action he can chose another character proper to the team needs.  Its depending on supply and demand in the faction. Players with a small amount of alts must to chose their roles.

[Sperber]

Well, then you simply can't try all possibilities and have to chose, that's not a bad thing either.
In other MMOs you also have several different roles like fighter, archer, mage, cleric or thief and not just fighters.

I have a mid-range sniper (rerolled crafter), a sneaker and a melee leader
all with 40+ levels and I don't really play very much.

If you're unsure about your build and don't have time for testing builds (like me) there's always the forum.

[Henry]

Can we combine the Medic perk with Healer and Healer+ to make one perk, and move it over to Support? I don't ever get to use these perks since we only get 8 perks per character and who can afford to lose a fighting perk for a medical boost? And 3? No way.

[Sperber]

Can we combine the Medic perk with Healer and Healer+ to make one perk, and move it over to Support? I don't ever get to use these perks since we only get 8 perks per character and who can afford to lose a fighting perk for a medical boost? And 3? No way.

Are you mad? That would make tanks even tougher, since 90% of PvP builds have First Aid and Doctor anyways.
Same thing if you throw them all together. It would easily be worth taking over Lifegiver++.

Support perks should be small flavoured gimmicks and not huge advantages that anyone can get.
If you make something available for everyone easily you might as well not have it at all or by default.