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Topic: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]  (Read 8321 times)

Adams

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2015, 09:21:54 am »
why suggestion title says it a weapon perk ?
Becuase its supposed to be a weapon perk but apparently some people have problems reading with comprehension.

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2015, 11:19:44 am »
why suggestion title says it a weapon perk ?
Becuase its supposed to be a weapon perk but apparently some people have problems reading with comprehension.
Also considering to get 3x brd, Hit the gaps, 2x crit perk + Stopping power would leave you with 1 toughness and 196hp.

However I do agree with requirement of curtain SPECIAL to get this perk. 6ST 4INT would seem decent.
:facepalm

KestreL

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2015, 12:16:36 pm »
BRD is a weapon perk. MRD is a weapon perk. (Guess it just matters the way people see it)

The idea for it being built in weapon or as perk someone must pick is completely up to developers or what they think is balanced. Overall, it's a suggestion anyways
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 12:22:16 pm by A3 »

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2015, 01:41:13 pm »
BRD is a weapon perk. MRD is a weapon perk. (Guess it just matters the way people see it)
http://www.fonline-reloaded.net/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Weapon_Perks

KestreL

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2015, 03:04:11 pm »
Yeah, I get it. The suggestion kinda split into 2 ideas as it went along.

1st: idea where it's free on only 1-2 weapon type.

2nd: idea where it's a perk which people can put on their builds.

Too late to change title of suggestion anyways.

VVish

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2015, 01:44:31 am »
Basically situation is the following, done in comparison:

Gatling Laser.
Gatling doesn't need any damage dealing perk.
It does 80-100 damage on range to any kind of build, since 90% of all armors is camk2 and there is no perk that can decrease it's damage. All builds equal in front of it.
Spoiler: Proof • show

Has range of 40.  3 shots per clip.
Can be used by EW snipers as self-defense on hexing range, also with critbuild gatling shots are deadly blows for 180-200 damage.
Instakills \ nearly kills target in onehex blow.
Really big range for damage dealer.
Can do splash damage in small cone.
Very stable in DPS, because of only few bullets need to hit the target.

Drawbacks:
Needs 7(6 with brof) ap to shoot, so it needs jet\actionboys to be used. However due to overall perk cheapness, you can allow yourself 1\2 actionboys without much suffering.
Weapon needs relatively more time to farm it + ammo (but if really they drop from Enclave like shit, with MFC rain from same place, so don't know what's the problem for EW users with getting enough amount of this weapon), no bonuses, no weapon perk like "accurate" demands more skillpoints into Energy Weapon to use.
Splash damage hits teammates hard.


Avenger minigun.
It needs minimum 2x damage dealing perks to execute, to deal damage on range equal to gatling - 3.
It does very unstable damage on range to any kind of build, since there is a lot of bullets in bursts, so chance to miss is higher, it decreases stability of damage, making range bursts unreliable. Thus critbuilds working bad, because of bullets missing instead of hitting target and rolling crit.
Has range of 35. 3 shots per clip.
Can deal devastating damage if all bullets hit to paper characters - jet users, 1x toughness, snipers.
It's good in hex range, can do oneshots\nearlykills for jet users\other damage dealing characters, but with that bullets misses it can sometimes do ridiculously low damage (to be honest this can be applied to any weapon, hexing is suffering without being sure it'll deal full damage instead of half bullets disappearing, avenger just suffer most cuz most bullets per barrage).
Critbuilds, however, can score incredible damage (more than 200) if got lucky, bet that luck is rare.
Can do splash damage in moderate cone, very good benefit in some cases.
Can use bonuses, also has "Accuracy" perk, that somehow decreases amount of BG skill needed to operate the gun (it doesn't help much, from what I heard avenger user still needs it's bg skill around 270).

Drawbacks:
7(6 with brof) requires either jet or ca+1ap\+1ap weapon or action boys to shoot twice. If used with jet as solution, it becomes very paper, so price is too high.
Range of getting pizduley - 35 firerange is a range where only tank builds can feel somehow safely, with good chances of survival, making non-tank avenger users good frag meat, but bad damage dealers.
Builds with high DR pretty much ignore avenger in ground, especially with DT\DR armors.
Splash damage hits teammates, requires precious positioning, that decreases time before damage is dealt.


Conclusions:
2x unreliable bursts is not worth investing brds and actionboys\crits.
It's much easier to counter damage from avenger (and also some other weapons), then to counter damage from gatling.
Tanks dealing more stable and reliable damage, than bursters. Gatling-tank users just dealing more damage.
For range fight LSW is better than avenger, even if all damage dealing perks applied.

Suggestions:
Gatling damage from 64-84 to 63-79.
To do something with avenger - best option is to make damage stable, so damage dealing perks will be worth it, but to lower crazy crits from it. Imo it's not good to see snipers dying from 1(!) blow sometimes.
That's why Stopping Power as perk for build or as perk for weapon can find it's place.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 01:55:40 am by VVish »
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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2015, 06:39:34 am »
Yeah, I get it. The suggestion kinda split into 2 ideas as it went along.

1st: idea where it's free on only 1-2 weapon type.

2nd: idea where it's a perk which people can put on their builds.

Too late to change title of suggestion anyways.

Well yeah i totaly missunderstud this too... anyway the idea is good but not as a weapon's perk only as a player character perk so it would be optional and not a given thing via using the weapon!
I think the best way would be to make this perk as a two lvl perk first one reduces all resist to 70-75% max and the second will further reduce it to 60-65% this is what i think!

KestreL

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2015, 08:05:30 am »
Well, Perhaps all that is needed to make Avenger a better weapon to fit balance would be to make ammo mode - 40% DR instead of -30%. And nerf XL by -4min -4max so xl doesnt get buffed but avenger does.

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2015, 08:11:53 am »
+1 VVish. Finally someone sensible...

I would add Tesla armor to Gatling's drawbacks. I know that people do not use it because of low normal resistance (still most weapons in the server are based on normal dmg), but with proper usage it is a big deal (f.e. sniper using Tesla being on maxed range makes Gatling's user unable to use his range to kill him easily). But I can't disagree with overall comparison.



Well, Perhaps all that is needed to make Avenger a better weapon to fit balance would be to make ammo mode - 40% DR instead of -30%. And nerf XL by -4min -4max so xl doesnt get buffed but avenger does.
I'm not sure if 40% wouldn't be too much, probably 35% would be enough but I like the idea. That way also P90 would be a decent rival to other guns again. See? It's not so hard to think of something useful and balanced.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2015, 08:18:59 am »
What if its not the guns, but the toughness perks and armors causing the problems  ??? ??? ???

**X-Files theme **

KestreL

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2015, 08:20:15 am »
Oh, my mistake, 5mm AP at the moment is -35% damage resistance. So the proper buff would be -45% damage resistance.

What if its not the guns, but the toughness perks and armors causing the problems  ??? ??? ???

**X-Files theme **

My tests were in hinkley. The avenger is not even balanced there.

Also, it would not effect snipers much. Currently snipers are 25% DR or 40% dr if they eat psycho, it changes only 5% dr if ammo dr% was changed.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 08:22:59 am by A3 »

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2015, 08:35:08 am »
What if its not the guns, but the toughness perks and armors causing the problems  ??? ??? ???

**X-Files theme **


Delete all the armors!

Urukhai

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2015, 09:23:02 am »
Why don't you buff a little bit more Tesla normal resistance from 25 - 30/35 since Tesla Armor is an enhanced version of a Metal Armor  ?. It would be worth to craft them and obtain some with high Normal DR and DT and after watch them being used in PvP. Its drawback could remain its low Fire resistance which is nice. A tesla user can stay on safe distance, but an incinerator will do some nice chicken McNuggets.

KestreL

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2015, 09:34:25 am »
How is this related ?

Urukhai

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Re: New weapon perk [Stopping Power]
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2015, 10:20:45 am »
How is this related ?

The topic derived into a mess of Ideas. Why don't you just modify armors or perks instead of adding new ?