STOP NERFING SNEAK SKILL!!!

[regeracht]

For the love of god, why does SMG affects sneak? Just get the hugest SMG IRL, try to croach with and roll. U wont feel uncomfortable with it. I can understand why does rifle gets u sneak worse. Definitely, holding a big gun is making sneak movement harder. But SMG is not that big. Everything is done to make the only possible effective way to play is getting a huge machinegun and bursting like hell. All SG weapons except XL are useless. U can manage with a good build if u use pistols. I was planning to use EW pistols to knockout, then hex the guy with p90. Why not? Sneakers have a lots of disadvantages besides this crap, we got enough of them. For real, guys, the whole system is made to play ugly stupid apes with 1 INT and 1 CHA, but have eyes like eagles and muscles like a babooin. Is that really that necessary to make one more step for making only tanks play and others just do PvE and sit tight without showing their noses out?

[jarok]

Write more details and technical numbers. Another crying thread does not help us. Be more specific with your suggestions.

[Kaaon]

All SG weapons except XL are useless.

stopped reading after this, its just another cry topic

[Koniko]

It's accually truth. Only reliable weapons for damage dealing from SG are .223 XL Pancor and Sniper Rifle. Rest are situational weapons that you cannot relay on. Only suitable sneaker now is LSW Crit Burster or .223 Sniper.

[regeracht]

Well, actually, yes, it is a crying post. Why not? When tanks cry, sneak is nerfed.
As about SG - with 10 PE and 10 Luck u deal like 90-110 damage crit in eyes, if the rifle is regular. 223 pistol or 14mm is fine, but fits only to specific builds.

As I suppose, SMG now lowers sneak skill for 100. This makes holding SMG in hand-off useless. So u cant be affective close-range sneaker if u use it. Yes, u still can develop like 223 spammer, or use HtH weapon. But if u use EW pistols, u do like 60-160 damage. And get a lot of KO with a proper build. This makes half-way there, ur opponent has 220-290 hp normally. So u have to finish the job. If u are not HtH, that makes u use something to simply hex, coz u can always make your SG to 100-120 with books, even non-tagged. And if SMG affects sneak, u cant do this. Keeping SMG in inventory is problematic for short ranged fights, u cant afford dragging it out, coz u need to react fast.

[Mad Matt]

Yes, I agree that SG have not so much love as BG or EW, same with Tanks being best fighting class. Even doing PvE is easier while using tank char. Some dungeons are available only for tanks. So this is true. Unfortunately, I have no better idea so I stfu myself in this matter. Without proper advices or ideas I would suggest it to author too. We need more reasonable ideas, not cry posts. Even as I'm understanding your anger and it's touching me too, I would reconsider more how to help with this situation...and than post something more arguable.

[Help Bot]

SMG's are only good for Hexing, even their bursts can leave much to be desired.
I had a scrap tank build with 245 HP, level 18 using a LSW beat a P90
He got 2 bursts off on me before I fired back two bursts his ~260 HP didn't do him much good.
He ended up bursting me 3 times.

I just super stim'ed and killed another one of his teammates with a Gatling next.

BG's are much easier to get into and use in Fonline then SG's you don't really need specific builds or to use hotkeys just level up and fire.

Sneaking IRL is what you know Camo is all about. IRL its deadly, on Fonline its more annoying. You can easily survive sniper shots to the head. Sure you might be knocked out, but if you have a friend who can heal you or get lucky you can then one burst (not even hex) the sniper and move on. Especially since you will see him. Fonline is a bit too easy on the easiest build to make since INT doesn't affect combat too heavily. Sneakers take a long time to create and for most of their leveling are useless.

[regeracht]

Well, Matt, I am giving suggestion right now. If SMG will be able for sneakers, they will be more deadly. And yes, I am completely agreed with Help Bot, only for hexing. So all I ask is to leave sneakers the ability to hex. It is not that big request, hexing requires not much skill, but is able only in specific situations, so gives not that big advantage, especially if u are the squishy guy in leather armor. It can be done, it wont ruin the balance, it will make more different builds for sneakers, so I suppose it will make game more different and interesting both for sneakers and for their opponents.

And no, Help Bot. Camo is ok for visual, for mid-long range situations. When u are mid-close it is more about hush movement, agility and your ability to step lightly, so mostly because of that it is correct that sneak is affected by agility. Try strikeball, u will see how it works )))

[Awgy]

Well, Matt, I am giving suggestion right now. If SMG will be able for sneakers, they will be more deadly. And yes, I am completely agreed with Help Bot, only for hexing. So all I ask is to leave sneakers the ability to hex. It is not that big request, hexing requires not much skill, but is able only in specific situations, so gives not that big advantage, especially if u are the squishy guy in leather armor. It can be done, it wont ruin the balance, it will make more different builds for sneakers, so I suppose it will make game more different and interesting both for sneakers and for their opponents.

And no, Help Bot. Camo is ok for visual, for mid-long range situations. When u are mid-close it is more about hush movement, agility and your ability to step lightly, so mostly because of that it is correct that sneak is affected by agility. Try strikeball, u will see how it works )))

Well i disagree with you on that.  sneakers are snipers snipers have load of AP do to jet. Ergo 12Ap at least mostly14 or even 16= at least 3 P90 bursts and you have some AP left. You obviously never got double burst hexed in the back with P90. I advice you to come Hinkley this evening and I will show you how damaging this is. Sneaker with P90 and ability to double burst would be and Was in the past an OP build, this is exactly why sneaking with P90 is not a thing anymore. Sneaker build is a support biuld I know this is pain in the Ass to play but sneakers require entire different playstyle, and are basically Pro only build.

Wysłane z mojego SM-G900F przy użyciu Tapatalka

[regeracht]

Well, yes, 2 bursts of p90 are painful, I can see that. But it just makes sneaker's chances a bit more to equal with tanks. Sneaker wont get his chance for second burst, if u burst him yourself, he is wearing freaking leather armor and often is squishy, coz requires a lot of SPECIAL to do other stats. So it is not overpovering from what I see. Having 2 burst of LSW is ok, when u are standing here in CA, and having 2 burst of SMG is not, when u are dressed in leather one? Well, that is definitely not like we are trying to make balance, more like trying to play tanks only)))
So the same trick about 3 or whatever how many bursts. BG can also shoot more then one burst and it is painful on a huge range even with no BRD/MRD. SMG is painful only when hexing. So just be a smart guy, buy yourself a motion sensor. Every action must have counteraction.

[Mad Matt]

if i remember correctly there was suggestion to make sneaking more like a support skill, something like throwing. Cap it with 200 (200 will be as 300 now) so no nerf, just more like adding new ways for combat styles.

[Beer]

Another thread of people complaining that support builds cant solo everything again 

really though, just because you think p90 is small and easy to use irl is no reason that should translate into the game. Other than that, sneakers are fine without p90. Last session only time sneaker with p90 was good is when a guy was busy doing something else or his ap is out so you could cheaply run up behind him and get a free kill because you arent visible until you are 3 hexes away. Its not more interesting for victims or for sneakers as I played both a tank and sneak last session. I quit using p90 because it was really boring and started using 223 pistol/guass pistol/pulse pistol/alien blaster. They are more fun to play and imo better than p90 when enemy isnt totally distracted/out of ap. If you still want to play brainlessly and destroy people at 1hex with sneak make a sneak melee and stunlock them as thats still doable. even plasma grenade sneak is viable.

on top of this sneak is a support build anyways. you have advantage of not being seen while being able to observe enemies every move and knowing when its best to strike(which obviously tanks cant do). this is a huge advantage and the cost of this is having shitty armor and having no burst. every team needs a sneak to give them info so this just magnifies the advantage of this build. the difference in having a good sneaker who can relay good info and a bad one who doesnt communicate well is the difference between victory and defeat.

And if you make a proper sneak build you will have 1 int and 1 cha anyways, so you are just a stupid really lucky ape with even better eagle eyes and no muscles. but nobody is forcing you to make an optimized build. you can kill with a build that has more int if you are too low level also. and really sg(xl, p90, sniper, grenade launcher, pancor, .223/14mm pistol) has more useful weapons than bg(rocket, LSW, avenger, possibly incinerator) and ew(gatling, plasma/laser rifle, solar, pulse pistol, alien blaster)

kilgore has said before sneaks are support only and thats why he removed p90 hex from them. i dont think his mind will change because of 1 more cry thread.

[regeracht]

Well, I see your point.
But u are wrong about me, I am completely agreed with support role. Informating your allies about enemy's positions is 1st priority for sneakers, yes. But the ability to hex is not giving that huge advantage as u say, u can only use it when opponent is out of AP or distracted. Also, he will see you much earlier then 3 hexes with a simple motion sensor. So sneaker should still keep himself away from a direct firefighting. All the things u say about making HtH sneak build are correct, but still nothing feels wrong for me if sneaker can hex. It is not about "solo everything" it just makes a chance for sneaker to kill a single-standing guy with no motion sensor by hexing with having no HtH skill or nades.
I realize it is stupid to transfer IRL experience to a game, I am not doing this. Just saying it is not ruining the balance. And besides crying, I am relying on what Ive build myself and heard from others, having exact situations and exact numbers, so it is still a complete suggestion, not just emotions.
So hexing for sneakers is just one of chances they can use. SMG is still bad on even a medium range and it feels nothing wrong to me if the guy who was stupid enough to stand alone and have no motion sensor, be punished by hexing inststead of HtH

[Hungry Hungry Shark]

sneak should be only support imo

[Beer]

Well, at least its not 100% emotion but still it is not completely support. you have the grenade/pistol/hth options to fight. If p90 hexing will make a big difference then it is too OP for a support build. hth is fine because it is good against only 1 enemy and you dont instakill them. p90 you can hex them 2x before they can even react then loot them and disappear again. With the melee spam there is some small chance to escape and the victim is actually alive so you both at least feel like you are playing the game a little.

Look at it like this. Imagine snipers= control wizards, sneaks= scouts/rogues, bursters= DPS wizards, and tanks= barbarians.  In some other game it is like "why cant my rogue instakill a barbarian with a backstab?" and the answer would be because rogues are not dps, they are mainly scouts and so dont have that much damage. Of course they have some ability to fight to protect themselves but against a tank that is made 100% to resist crits and damage, you should not have such an ability. You can still kill a barbarian with some skill and a little luck by playing smart and using your advantages well, but it will be hard and you couldnt do it the same way another barbarian/dps could. Dps should and does instakill this barbarian  because he is made for such things but he is weak to the control wizard because dps has less range and is weak to the effects the control wizard can do to him. So sniper>burster, burster>tank, tank>sniper. rogue is a bit different in that he has a big advantage that applies across all the other guys (sneak) but also has a big disadvantage in that he alone isnt too powerful. It will seem like most people are tanks because that is the front line cannon fodder, not that its too OP. Maybe its not a perfect analogy but its best i can come up with since fonline is a little different and theres always some hybrid builds.