Grenade!

[3.14]

Current situation with thrown explosives (average damage vs armor):

Code: [Select]

                        Frag    Plasma   Dynacord
Leather Armor MKII       27       81        48
Metal Armor              35       68        59
Metal Armor MKII         29       63        52
Tesla Armor              37       12        63
Combat Armor             23       41        43
Combat Armor MKII        17       40        35


Frag grenades will knockdown/back a target, but one would need 10-20 hits to kill anyone. About 7 plasma or dynacord are needed for a kill, that's two rounds of throwing and the victim will not get knockdown.

Perks for throwing are limited - Heave Ho!, Heave Ho!!, and Bonus Rate of Fire. Action Boy is of some utility and then that's it.

You get no crafting bonuses and you need tones of grenades for pve- 100 dynacord sticks last for about 30-45 minutes of hunting. I'm not even gonna talk about crafting plasma 'nades...

So.. would anyone disagree with me if I'd say that grenades suck?


What could be done?
1. Damage buff.
It seems like a universal solution to all problems. Let's have more damage!
Grenade (Frag)    35-60 -> 55-80
Grenade (Plasma)    60-120 -> 80-140
Dynacord Stick    60-100  ->80-120

Frag grenades could have -DR properties (like in FT), -40 and they'd do 30-55 to most armors and be somewhat usable.

2. New type.
Incendiary grenades:
Damage type fire (affected by pyromaniac), damage 50-100(?), no knockback, 6 AP.
With both pyromaniac perks it would deal 90-140 (65-102 vs CA, 53-86 vs CA mk2) 

Sticky boomb (food for thought - not sure if I really want this).
100-200 damage, 8AP, range 9. Explodes after 10 seconds (or in the next round in TB). When hit with this thing it spawns an explosive in ones inventory - if someone is fast enough it can be dropped, disarmed or thrown back, if not... well:


3. New perks.
A Fistful of Dynamite (or Duck, You Sucker!)
Requirements: 200 throwing, luck 6(?)
Effect: When using dynamite you have +50% chance of a critical hit.

4. Mechanics rework.
In Fallout Tactics getting hit by a grenade usually meant cripple limbs.  A 10-20% chance for a arm or leg cripple for every non-critical hit could make them usable in pvp.
 

[Kilgore]

Pyromaniac is broken, I need to change it before adding any new Fire-dmg weapons (Incendiary grenade could be good).

Crippled limbs - I don't think so.

Increased damage - could be good, but I'm not sure if that doesn't bring back grenade+silent death trolling which was extremely annoying on 2238.

[Ed Wood]

sould also make the Molotovs do firedamage instead of explo

[3.14]

Ok, so to get the damage right, let's do it in reverse, instead of asking how much damage a grenade should do, let's ask how many grenades should be needed to kill a player?

Let's say a player has 240 hp and 40DR, 0DT (to make calculations simpler).

DMG=400/X
where:
X-the number of hits
DMG -average damage per hit

So if we want to kill a player with 6 grenades we get:
DMG=400/6~=67

So 67 would be the average damage, but what would be the min and max dmg? We have to take on a priori, let's say - max dmg is 95.

MIN_DMG=2*AVG_DMG - MAX_DMG
So we have:
MIN_DMG=2*67-95=39

To sum up, a grenade doing 39-95 explosive damage would kill a 240hp player with 40 DR in 6 hits. Change the numbers to Your liking, the formula stays the same - that should give some balanced damage. 


I'm not saying 29-95 is the damage I want, it's just to show how to calculate damage effectiveness.

[Sperber]

As I already suggested in the grenade launcher topic:

If your traps skill and/or demolition expert support perk would improve explosion damage, grenades would become viable but not OP.

[Strike]

DMG buff to grenades sounds good, not sure about cripple limbs :/
Good suggestion, I would still like to see someone do suggestion about explosives and effect in towns.

Increased damage - could be good, but I'm not sure if that doesn't bring back grenade+silent death trolling which was extremely annoying on 2238.

Damage and Critical are different thing, and with Silent Death (which don't effect grenades anymore) you did critical, even with 1LK.

[jacky]

grenades boost is very damgerous. You can make good throwing spammer who can make lots of dmg. that is even more dangerous if we think about kids-slaves with plasma/frag grenades

[Kilgore]

Yup, that's right.

[Furior]

What about this, you dont need to have the granade in your hand to use them, pressing a key and clicking in a hex would be enought. This way it would be a good support weapon to hit people who is covered and it wont be a pain in the ass to switch your current weapon.

Flash Grenade and Stun Grenade may be added also, as support weapons. No damage. Flash would reduce your sight to 5 for X time ( 3-5 sec) and Stunned enemies would suffer a shorter "lost turn".

[jacky]

Hahaha i know what you want to smuggle "in your face" perk