Ammo for shotguns

[Kelin]

Sorry but I don’t really remember the exact names, hope nobody gets offended if I use "green" and "purple" shells. First of all I’d like to mention that this is no cry topic about how op current ammunition for shotguns is, I just got an idea to make pancors more interesting and usable as a tactical weapon. Now it’s kinda boring to be honest since from range it deals similar damage as avenger and personally I don’t see any fun in it.

So I suggest to completely rework these two new types of shotgun shells and here we have some numbers:
Purple ammo aka "tank killer"
DM mod: 5/8
DR mod: -70%
AC mod: -20
Armor Piercing
The idea behind this is to have some weapon that deals constant damage and totally ignores enemy armor. With pancor’s 24-30 base damage it would deal 90-112 dmg to basically any armor, which makes it a great choice for close range fights against tanks, but also very effective against other builds.

Let’s take a look at the other ammunition:
Green ammo aka "gauge rubber" or "non lethal"
DM mod: 1/1
DR mod: +90%
AC mod: -10
This ammo would have 100% chance to either knock down (50% chance) or knock back (50% chance) your enemies, but causes no damage to them.

Please discuss whether you like the new shotgun ammunition or would love to see my suggested ammunition implemented instead.

[Strike]

I actually like both, lot better than they are now

This new kind bullet, rubber is fun. Would like to see them ingame.

[DocAN]

Now green ammo is most likely anti high AC trolls and purple ammo with last update isn`t so powerfull as it was b4.

[jacky]

Docan purple amo were weaker than green one vs tough builds. Green amo is still op
"With pancor’s 24-30 base damage it would deal 90-112 dmg to ca mk2 with 2xtoughnes" <-- yes please balance shotguns to this dmg/burst with 3xbrd to deal 90-110 dmg/burst with ap green amunition. Now we are making 140-150 dmg/burst,

*kilgore i suggested to nerf green amunition from 50% to 35% not 45% and purple from 35% to 25%.
I focused on green amunition becasue they are stronger vs tough builds

Anyhow YOU are expert not me, but FOR ME pancors with green amunition should deal 90-110 dmg/burst with 3xbrd <--- in MY opinion this should be proper balance, because with 3x burst you are able to kill anyone.

#How we can achieve it: nerf more green amo DR factor or/and remove penetrate perk from shotguns

I dont want to nerf everything except avenger, I am 100% for boosting usles weapons but with keeping basic rule: sg burst < bg burst. If we compare top EW/SG/AV burst weapons rank of it will be more less like this:
p90*<xl*<gatling<avenger*<pancor*
* with 3x BRD

#You are right Kligore, I cried about xl dmg before I used it, but now I have 3xbrd sg burster, and before I wrote my post I made test with Ivic vs 11/55%, 11/59%, 12/78% tanks with adrenaline rush. Results of  testing were quite surprising.

[Kilgore]

Green amo is still op

It was changed as you suggested, so what's the deal?

Green ammo aka "gauge rubber" or "non lethal"
DM mod: 1/1
DR mod: +90%
AC mod: -10
This ammo would have 100% chance to either knock down (50% chance) or knock back (50% chance) your enemies, but causes no damage to them.

EMP ammo can be used for that. I tested it a bit yesterday, it will be available from the next update. The only thing I'm not sure of is knockback effect, but I think that can be changed.

I'm not going to rework Purple ammo, without any effect it would be just worse in all terms than avenger so it would not be used at all. Now shotguns have 10 hexes smaller range, have special effect, have decent damage.. I'll observe some fights whether damage is an issue (still considering +5% DR adjustment to lower it a bit), but it reminds me of XL70E3 - a shitstorm about super damage, stupid trash talk that everyone will use only XL... and then what? Then I see as many as 10 various weapon types used in a single TC. Avenger boost is not an excuse, because if it was, then people would not use rocket launchers, sniper rifles and other weapons.

What you want is just nerf to everything except avenger minigun, and I say no.

jack: so now you're moaning about green (flechette) or purple (slugs) because I'm confused now.

[Ed Wood]

i agree with Kelin

but not -70% for purple thats too mutch!

another spectrum of ammotype: Drangon's breth
Fire damage instead of normal! DM mod: 2/1 (firedamag would make a new spectrum of helmet damage! rightnow we have fire and explosive resist on helmets for totaly no reason!
                                                  DR mod: -10-0% (almost all armor has weak reist against fire so no need to be bosted or nerfed)
                                                  AC mod: +5-10 (this type of ammo was not good at long range)
                                                  this ammo comes without kockback

[Kelin]

EMP ammo can be used for that.

Damn I totally forgot about the yellow ammo! Well the reason why I want that 50:50 KD:KB is because in case of 100% knock down chance it would become another troll tool pretty much like heavy handed, but let’s be honest knock back is only for defense so 100% chance of knock back would be imho useless in team fights, but it certainly needs some further testing.

I'm not going to rework Purple ammo, without any effect it would be just worse in all terms than avenger so it would not be used at all.

This ammo is meant to be 10-20% better than avenger against heavy tanks on psychobeer, maybe numbers are wrong (I thought avenger deals like 80-90 dmg against heavy tanks), but intentions are pure 

[jacky]

Yes av vs 11/75% tank deal about 80-90 dmg and if we want to keep rule sg<bg pancor should deal about 70-80 dmg/burst not 105-115 like it is now

[Adams]

As far as i understand Pancor is supposed to deal more dmg to full toughness psycho characters than avanger.
Avanger still deals way more dmg to nontuffnes jet characters so its simple: want to counter avangers use tuffnes psycho and if you want to counter psycho tuffnes build use pancor,to counter pancors just take all lifegivers super simple stuff.
Imo good suggestion especially the rubber shit ammo could have its use in various situations.
Adams approves.

[jacky]

Adams pancor with green amunition deals about 160-200 dmg to jet builds

you can make 3x burst pancor char who is shooting fully psycho/beer builds for 110 dmg/burst = after 2-3s you are dealing over +300dmg when avenger can deal at the same time 170-190 dmg. pancors are extremly deadly vs 11/55% common builds and much stronger than avengers.
"to counter pancors just take all lifegivers" <= it isnt enought vs pancors

light troopers               pancor > av
med troopers               pancor > av
heavy troopers             pancor > av
super heavy troopers   pancor > av

[Kilgore]

Next update will lower -%DR green & purple ammo a bit.

I've tested EMP ammo, seems to cause knockdown well. Not very realistic, but I'd rather not add another ammo type for that So you can consider it as anti-robotic or rubber ammo, whatever. Will be craftable after next update (today/tonight).

Fire ammo will be introduced later, there are some problems with that, such as stupid Pyromaniac giving +xx dmg bonus instead of +xy% bonus dmg. Someone who made it, must have thought only about Flamers... meh. My fault was to not fix it before the release.

Also post a graphic for Dragon's Breath shells (inventory) if you have any.

[Ed Wood]

Happy to see you considered the Dragon's breth! Check out youtub how oes it looks like! its pretty intense and spectacular!

The shells does not looks difrend than any other normal shotgun shells but most of the time i see it with orange and white(i think the color is only depends on the company whos making it) colored covering.... the base is also the same golden metal as any other.

some pictures... dunno if its works:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQ6DmJAGeDkr2wsIBjsoaUqBmu9dag2nMMcrZgRH68ucn-tklS
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/4183110305/7888005/387883067270ba0c7108fc07965694a6.jpg

And yeah i waned to say the same about the pyro perk too but totaly forgot...

Oh and its important that this shell does not doo any Knockdowns by deffault becos its not realy the peletts thats makes the damage here but the fire!

[kill n die]

Also post a graphic for Dragon's Breath shells (inventory) if you have any.