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Topic: In defence of my friends  (Read 1129 times)

Dr. Mengelito

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In defence of my friends
« on: June 19, 2016, 09:48:20 PM »
Quote from: DocAN
Characters: Seki., Awgsome., Yolocaust, Luna.
Reason: abusing caravan feature repeatedly
Ban duration: 7 days
Additional notes:

In their defence I'd like to say that it's not clearly stated in the game rules not to scout and then attack a caravan from worldmap, I'm sure if it was they wouldn't have done it. I'd like to remind the jury of the herculean task Awgan took upon himself raising scrubs this year and how Seki's been doing a little bit of this and that.

Quote from: Kilgore
Characters: Krecik, Skinhead, Mlotkasz, Invader, Ravenzilla, Chemotherapy, guwnorzer, GrizzanHtH, Gietman, Jan Grizzan II, DiscoCommando, SidleJinks, Princess Banana
Reason: see notes below
Ban duration: permanent
Additional notes:
- caravan friendly fire
- excessive hostile speech
- http://forum.fonline-reloaded.net/index.php?topic=7486.msg60754#msg60754

I think it's great preba and dera got a second chance and in the name of sportsmanship and all that is fair and beautiful in the world I think these fine young lads deserve a second chance aswell! I had them on TS and they have all been very drunk lately. Would a fonline without Grizzan really be a fonline at all?

This probably ain't gonna lead nowhere, just voicing my opinion.

#kilgoreplz #freemaniggaz #awgandindunuffin

"The infiltration took a huge toll on my physical and mental health; I was haunted by nightmares of being exposed to the faction I was infiltrating, other nightmares being of Mengelito." -Lash 2016

Barneys

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2016, 09:50:19 PM »
Let's respect Kilgore and docan decision, even if we're not a 100% ok with it. It is pointless now to talk about it.

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Fantastic

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2016, 09:53:49 PM »
I 100% agree, the vagueness of the rules is the real problem. Nowhere did it state that this was a bannable offence.

Mad Matt

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2016, 09:57:20 PM »
Let the devs do their job, while we are doing our. This is not a perma ban anyway.
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Dr. Mengelito

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2016, 10:11:35 PM »
Let the devs do their job, while we are doing our. This is not a perma ban anyway.

I'll speak out against smth if I feel it's unjust, I respect your opinion and I really don't expect anything to change. Just raising the question!

"The infiltration took a huge toll on my physical and mental health; I was haunted by nightmares of being exposed to the faction I was infiltrating, other nightmares being of Mengelito." -Lash 2016

PrebaTHC

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2016, 10:14:07 PM »
I strongly believe in Kilgore and Docan and their ability to know right from wrong. I supported them when they banned khans. I supported them when they banned the two best chars on the server too, becouse they have to be sure. I think its worse if someone cheats and DOESNT get banned. When you show them proof that shows them that they made a mistake they  unban the chars. The only people that should be permabanned are botters. And in this case , as Fantastic said, Nowhere did it state that this was a bannable offence. I always thought raiding caravans was legal and I did it myself.

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Henry

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2016, 10:20:51 PM »
Not sure what happened, but if it was joining a caravan, and then leaving it to re-join and do PvP, only to declare "it's legal because i left caravan and joined it from outside", then good golly, Khans do that with extreme prejudice, are not getting banned for it, and thus setting a bad example. If then other players think "oh, i guess it's legal" and do it too, that's sad.

As I understand it, it is against the rules to shortcut the rules. I hope nobody is actually deluding themselves into thinking otherwise. So doing that is not legal. Let an admin tell me i'm wrong, but it would mean the rules have little value.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 10:23:27 PM by Henry »

Dr. Mengelito

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2016, 10:37:05 PM »
Not sure what happened, but if it was joining a caravan, and then leaving it to re-join and do PvP, only to declare "it's legal because i left caravan and joined it from outside", then good golly, Khans do that with extreme prejudice, are not getting banned for it, and thus setting a bad example. If then other players think "oh, i guess it's legal" and do it too, that's sad.

As I understand it, it is against the rules to shortcut the rules. I hope nobody is actually deluding themselves into thinking otherwise. So doing that is not legal. Let an admin tell me i'm wrong, but it would mean the rules have little value.

Well this is not the time to point fingers, fingerpointing gets us nowhere  ;D aaaaand we have sure attacked caravans but not with guys inside just when we find them on patrols! Anyways, in this case one SW member was on the caravan and other SW members found the encounter on the WM and attacked it, the guy inside the caravan didnt attack so very strange imo!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 10:39:18 PM by Dr. Mengelito 👑 »

"The infiltration took a huge toll on my physical and mental health; I was haunted by nightmares of being exposed to the faction I was infiltrating, other nightmares being of Mengelito." -Lash 2016

Seki

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2016, 10:39:10 PM »
noone "left and rejoined from outside"
i was in caravan, i told position of it to my team mates and they dropped from worldmap and killed players inside
docan said that we was banned because i told them where caravan is..
many players did this before us and noone was ever banned for it, rules clearly say only about joining caravan and doing FF, how we had to know that sharing information about position of caravan is considered as abusing of feature ?  :-\
we really wasnt aware of it and if we would then ofc wouldnt do that.. it doesnt even make much sense in my opinion but only thing i can do is accepting decision of devs and stop raiding caravans
thank you guys for support but its not really needed, we already discussed this with kilgore and docan in private

Mad Matt

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2016, 12:02:34 AM »
Let the devs do their job, while we are doing our. This is not a perma ban anyway.

I'll speak out against smth if I feel it's unjust, I respect your opinion and I really don't expect anything to change. Just raising the question!

Well, it was my opinion. I respect your, there was no intention to offend you or start any shitstorm.
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KompreSor

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2016, 12:20:03 AM »
Quote from: DocAN
May 19, 2016, 08:39:58 PM »
Characters: lucky man, perzett
Reason: fast relog in pvp
Ban duration: perm
Additional notes:
Quote from: DocAN
May 30, 2016, 12:30:41 AM »
Characters: Hot Ass, Pan Przemcio
Reason: fast relog in PvP (New Reno)
Ban duration: 2 weeks
is same guy, who did FR do FR and he will doing FR, and his's 2nd ban is only 2 weeks? westeland never will be fair and deal with it.

Dr. Mengelito

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2016, 12:20:17 AM »
Let the devs do their job, while we are doing our. This is not a perma ban anyway.

I'll speak out against smth if I feel it's unjust, I respect your opinion and I really don't expect anything to change. Just raising the question!

Well, it was my opinion. I respect your, there was no intention to offend you or start any shitstorm.

Nah let's not  ;D

"The infiltration took a huge toll on my physical and mental health; I was haunted by nightmares of being exposed to the faction I was infiltrating, other nightmares being of Mengelito." -Lash 2016

zekromo

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2016, 07:11:48 AM »
The only abusing caravan features that I know and are also universal are :
1) Friendly fire within caravan/ killing a player while in caravan. This is obviously an abuse of the feature and a couple of people come to mind from this rule, however since I have no screens I cannot back this up. Just from now on people need to realise that this is an offence.
2) Reporting the location of the caravan you are in to allow team mates to find the encounter and kill the other players inside.

What is devoid of banhammering is finding a caravan with no inside information but simply finding it on world map. Khans have done this many times when on patrol and so have a few other parties. While this is essentially killing people in caravan, the loophole of not being in the caravan to begin with stops the banhammer taking effect.

So put simply, if you want to kill people on caravan you have to place your bets on finding the caravan in an encounter without the 2 rules above being in effect. It is true that the rules need to be revised if loopholes like this want to be diminished. But as it remains this will keep coming into effect.

Right now a tighter approach to killing in a caravan once joined is appropriate. I have been on several caravans where people, you know who you are, decide to use their t4 instead of using it for a proper purpose and decide to muck about and injure others on the caravan. Since I have no screens, but I will do so from now on, be careful of doing such a stupid act. Use that t4 wisely, not turning someone into ashes with your pulse rifle ;)

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Kilgore

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2016, 07:58:50 AM »
Zekromo explained it right.

As I wrote to Seki yesterday: if you are looking for a hole in game rules and you decide to test it, you can expect an unusual ban.

Bans are only one week long (and 2-3 days have passed already) and I think that old players have more than one character available.

I agree that for fastrelogging and duallogging, bans shorter than permanent are simply not effective.
However, I unban characters when I have a reason to believe they will not use it again. But if they do, they will be told goodbye definitely!

Grizzan is permabanned because it's a waste of time to read countless and exactly the same reports since few years. If he cannot adapt to simple game rules, then he should look for another game.

As for caravans, all problems appeared when caravan NPCs were "fixed" so they don't go hostile if you shoot caravan member by accident, which was quite annoying. You could say: "that's why we can't have nice things".
But the rule is temporary and it will be gone in next session.

jarok

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Re: In defence of my friends
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2016, 08:04:09 AM »
Quick solution: make caravans only PvE feature and not catchable from worldmap. I guess there was understatement with game rules but general "no friendly fire means no kill players in caravans". It does not matter if you go with them via caravan master or find them via worldmap. Worldmap is huge and there is a lot of places for PvP. Do not be so greedy, someone wants to have fun, not only high grinding.

I even surprised why someone like Seki did it. I do not know you personally but what you post in forums means you already got enough stuff to do not do it.
I'm badass and I will kick your asses.