The case for the LSW Single Shot

[Nark]

Thought I'd make a separate thread on this, even though there are two similar threads asking for LSW Short Bursts and Longer Range on the weapon. This is something I think needs to happen in order to make building a BG aimed shot character for a Bozar worth doing.

The Bozar is the only big gun in the game that can make called shots, and if you were to use it in a sniping build you would be making a completely different build to what every other Big Gun uses, most likely incorporating high luck in favour of the usual tankiness of a Big Guns build.

Decreasing your survivability by doing this also increases the chance that you have to lose your Bozar in a battle, which can sometimes be unavoidable depending on the circumstances. This fact combined with how damn rare the Bozar is means that nobody in their right mind is willing make and grind a build specifically for it, because they know if they did lose it their build would become completely useless.

First lets look at the stats of the Bozar and LSW before I go further.

Bozar:

Damage: 45-55
Single Shot Range: 50
Burst Mode Range: 35
Burst Rounds: 3, all 3 have 95% chance to hit, much like a burst from a Shotgun
Ammo Capacity: 15 rounds
Single Shot: base 7 AP
Burst Mode: base 7 AP
Strength Requirement: 6
Perk: Long Range

Now, aside from the fact that the Single Shot and Burst Mode cost the same amount of AP (which in my opinion should be changed, it's literally the only weapon in the game that is like this, make Bozar take 6 AP to single shot), let's move on to the LSW.

Light Support Weapon:

Damage: 22-37
Single Shot Range: None
Burst Mode Range: 35
Burst Rounds: 10, around 1/3 of the rounds have 95% chance to hit at range, 10 at one-hex, usual formula
Ammo Capacity: 30 rounds
Single Shot: None
Burst Mode: base 7 AP
Strength requirement: 6
Perk: None

This weapon currently is just a mediocre M60 that you can be mobile with, and the Avenger has become way better in the running category anyway since the last buff.

What I suggest is a change to the Light Support Weapon, not a buff or a nerf, a mechanical change/overhaul. It should be made into a "mini Bozar" style of weapon, so there's a halfway point which isn't almost impossible to get for a Big Gun Aimed Shot build.

Proposed Light Support Weapon stats:

Damage: 22-37
Single Shot Range: 45
Burst Mode Range: 35
Burst Rounds: 3, all 3 have 95% chance to hit, much like a burst from a Shotgun (this nerfs its self-defense ability at close range and one-hex, whilst keeping it almost the same as it was with 10 round bursts at range, without spread)
Ammo Capacity: 30
Single Shot: base 6 AP
Burst Mode: base 7 AP
Strength requirement: 6
Perk: Long Range

This would separate the LSW from the other Big Guns and make a stepping stone for viable Big Gun Aimed Shot builds, something that I feel needs to exist in-between Nothing and Bozar.

[jacky]

Yes i want lsw sniper mode

[krausser666]

Give this man a cookie, I like the idea.  A sniping BG would be great, especially that Bozar really needs another build to be properly used. And if You loose bozar, you could always take your LSW from the safe house.

[Perteks]

I think LSW as option for sniping isn't that bad.
But you know Bozar will be boosted ?

[jacky]

it will bring new sniper/crit burster build .

[advil]

heyyeyaaeyaaaeyaeyaa whats going on?
Dude seriously where is he man???

[Nark]

I think LSW as option for sniping isn't that bad.
But you know Bozar will be boosted ?

Any buff to the Bozar itself won't change anything unless it becomes much, much less rare to find (and possibly given the ability to be crafted). It's the availability of the weapon that makes builds that use it so difficult to kit out. An LSW with Single/Aimed Shots serves to be the mid tier weapon in the BG sniping category that is not impossibly hard to rely on getting.

[mrx]

Now I thik (yuo shud listen to me cas I know wot im talkin about) that it shudn't be the LSW that get a single shot. It shud be the avenger becas it already has the "ACCURACY" bonus. Plus is bes gun in game (yuo'd no this if u had 2 degrees in quantum mathematics like i do).

Avenger with single aimed shots is the only choice that makes sense because of LOGIC AND ROLEPLAY. Why else would the BoS use it so much?

The Avenger shuld also give AC because it is so big that it blocks a lot of bullets that stupid SG users spray at you (they are seriously so dump using those inferior weapons.


-BG 4 life

LOL

I agree
+8

And btw I think this build could be 2 strong (aimed shots + very high chance for devastating burst +  crit based bazooka will be funny 2). [m60 + LSW in turn based it this case would be also awesome?].
Not 2 universal build?

It just looks a bit like "I want BG, lets boost it".
The proposal with moving LSW burst to 3 from 10 will make Big Gunners even easier and MUCH MUCH cheaper to farm - flamer will die.

(mby I am wrong)
Anyway idea is interesting.

[Kilgore]

Not a bad idea. Will be changed after I do some tests.

[Imrin]

The only problem I have with this is that it makes BG that much more viable. We'd see more LSWs in PvP which would increase diversity, though. Worth a try. I'd decrease its single shot range just so it doesn't overshadow other snipers. 40 range sounds reasonable in that it would allow it to combat rocket launchers. In practice, though, it would probably just overshadow rocket launchers, so I'd say that 35 range would be better, maybe 37 to compete against bursters.

[Nark]

Sorry, fool. I don't think you understand that the Sniper Rifle would still require less AP to use, have more damage and more range even with this change. I think it's pretty simple to understand. This doesn't magically make LSW a better Sniper weapon than a Sniper Rifle or XL70E3.

Saying BG Sniper-type characters shouldn't be viable because the Avenger Minigun is really strong is like saying that the Sniper Rifle should get nerfed because the Pancor Jackhammer is op.

37 range is also really terrible considering you can be outranged by Gatling Lasers and Rocket Launchers, 2 hexes away from Avenger Miniguns is also not good enough. You are completely delusional if you think a Big Gun aimed shot should have less range than a god damn Rocket Launcher. Remember, aimed shots are for crowd control, Rocket Launchers are also for crowd control, guess which one is harder to build around and more luck based.

45 range single shot is an ideal place below Sniper Rifles and Bozars without being raped by other Big Guns when you try to snipe single shots with a Big Gun.

Anyway, I am glad Kilgore has decided to even try out some of these changes. I hope good results come from them and at least some of the changes can be implemented.

[Vanadiss]

Maybe add 3-round burst with direct hitting, no spread for decreased AP cost? 5 would be good. Leave regular LSW Burst alone. Make this weapon a bit more universal. 3x10 or 10x3.

[jacky]

do you know if you shoot 10 bullets in range, only 3-4 can hit target? so you want to make same burst but for lower ap?
better make 45hexes single aim shoot

[Vanadiss]

Regular burst - spread, for bigger groups
Short burst - direct
So?

[Kilgore]

Will be implemented with the next update.